Miscarriage: Murder!

[archibaldcrane]

Archi you are approaching this from a biological standpoint. I think that is your problem. If you want to argue that a zygote is human life then argue it from a philosophical point of view. Then at least you will have some basis to work from.

No, this is exactly opposite and completely wrong.

From a biological basis a zygote is clearly human life. Philosophically, reasonable people can argue about what that means as far as what rights it should be granted.

[Uzor]

I love how you're all trying to throw my definitions back in my face.

You're doing a terrible job.

Seriously?

Seriously?

Have you even read biology in school?

Then tell me, how are new cells created? You don't honestly think you have the same cells throughout your entire life, do you?

I'll bold the keywords for you;

Reproduction: The ability to produce new individual organisms, either asexually from a single parent organism, or sexually from two parent organisms.

Its called mitosis. I suggest you look it up. Unless you're trying to tell us that you don't believe cells are organisms?

I hereby declare treating cancer to be genocide.

[kuronosan]

I am suffering from a failure to admit I was full of shit.

This is all I got out of that. Done with this topic. Later!

[zoobernut]

No, this is exactly opposite and completely wrong.

From a biological basis a zygote is clearly human life. Philosophically, reasonable people can argue about what that means as far as what rights it should be granted.

No I think you should read and understand before posting.

A zygote is clearly cell life, when it transitions to human life is the part that is debatable. How many cells does it take to create a human life? Just because a Zygote has the potential to become human life doesn't make it currently a human life.

I have the potential to live until I am 90 but that doesn't mean I am already 90 or have the characteristics I will when I am 90. If someone killed me today they wouldn't be tried for killing an octogenarian just because one day I could be one.

[Rhinox]

Everytime I masturbate I'm committing genocide ;(

[Kuya]

So... i think that women should have the right to abortions (i'll skip the details) because the consequences from having it be a banned practice would far outweigh the benefits of having it be legal. In this case, sacrificing a human fetus is a necessary sacrifice.

[Olo401]

The whole debate on whether a fetus is a baby or not is really a /facepalm and should stop being argued.

This is the only worthwhile sentence in your entire post.

[archibaldcrane]

Seriously?

Seriously?

Have you even read biology in school?

Then tell me, how are new cells created? You don't honestly think you have the same cells throughout your entire life, do you?

I'll bold the keywords for you;



Its called mitosis. I suggest you look it up.

The human body is not comprised of millions of single-cellular organisms - it is one organism comprised of millions of cells. The cells themselves reproduce, but no single cell of a grown human is an organism in and of itself. The only way new human organisms are created (outside of a lab) is via fertilization (or via a blastocyst splitting in the very early stages, creating an identical twin - I suppose that would be "new life creation" as well).

[archibaldcrane]

So... i think that women should have the right to abortions (i'll skip the details) because the consequences from having it be a banned practice would far outweigh the benefits of having it be legal. In this case, sacrificing a human fetus is a necessary sacrifice.

Completely agree. *hifive*

[Koul]

this was on cambell brown. shows a guy "explaining" how the law would work. he says that falling down the stairs or forgetting to put your seat belt on > car crash wouldn't be included.

I don't agree with this just because it could get out of hand. I think it's funny that republicans/conservatives want little government control.... yet they want the government to control these types of things. herrdurrp. uhhh wut

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUr-yX7Cht0

[zoobernut]

So what is the difference between a single cell in your body and a single cell organism? What is the difference between humans and clumps of single cells that are still individual organisms but they cooperate with each other?

[Benihana]

Hmmm, spent some time looking at some articles and stuff and there isn't as much agreement as I thought there was, so I guess it is more opinion than a definitive fact using straight biology. Definitions also change based on what you believe in too. It doesn't actually change my opinion much, but I'll agree to call it an opinion. So what do you hold as the start of human life? Is it when the fetus has all its parts or is it when the fetus has passed the age of viability or some other requirements/definiton?

[Rhinox]

Completely agree. *hifive*

.......

And there it is guys did you see it? If you weren't careful you would have missed it. The rare beast known as

Such a beautiful thing to witness. Bask in all its glory ladies and gentlemen. Kuya gave him an out and he took it.


http://somethinglikearapper.files.wo.../clapoht11.gif

[zoobernut]

Hmmm, spent some time looking at some articles and stuff and there isn't as much agreement as I thought there was, so I guess it is more opinion than a definitive fact using straight biology. Definitions also change based on what you believe in too. It doesn't actually change my opinion much, but I'll agree to call it an opinion. So what do you hold as the start of human life? Is it when the fetus has all its parts or is it when the fetus has passed the age of viability or some other requirements/definiton?

Now we are getting somewhere. I like this Benihana. Personally I am not sure when a "human life" begins.
I think that in order to understand that we would have to fully understand how our brains work and how consciousness works.


I don't think it is the only factor to take in for the abortion argument. I agree greatly with Kuya's post above, that incidentally Archi quoted and agreed with too. I am by no means pro-abortion though I think it should be a last resort and used only after very careful consideration.

[archibaldcrane]

.......

And there it is guys did you see it? If you weren't careful you would have missed it. The rare beast known as

Such a beautiful thing to witness. Bask in all its glory ladies and gentlemen. Kuya gave him an out and he took it.


http://somethinglikearapper.files.wo.../clapoht11.gif

Haha, wow.

You thought I was using this whole biology discussion to edge my way into a pro-life stance or something?

Jesus christ man, really? I just want to call a spade a spade. Abortion ends a human life. I'm still in favor (and always have been) of women being able to make the decision to end that life, I just don't need to dress it up in some nonsense about "just a bunch of cells that isn't life" to remove some theoretical burden on my conscience.


Did everyone else think I was angling for a "pro-life" stance too? Ya'll are really too touchy

[zoobernut]

Haha, wow.

You thought I was using this whole biology discussion to edge my way into a pro-life stance or something?

Jesus christ man, really? I just want to call a spade a spade. Abortion ends a human life. I'm still in favor (and always have been) of women being able to make the decision to end that life, I just don't need to dress it up in some nonsense about "just a bunch of cells that isn't life" to remove some theoretical burden on my conscience.


Did everyone else think I was angling for a "pro-life" stance too? Ya'll are really too touchy

I remembered you being pro-choice I just think the biology angle is stupid and thinking that people call it a lump of cells only to take away the burden on their conscience is not true. It may be true for some but not everyone.

[Uzor]

The human body is not comprised of millions of single-cellular organisms - it is one organism comprised of millions of cells. The cells themselves reproduce, but no single cell of a grown human is an organism in and of itself. The only way new human organisms are created (outside of a lab) is via fertilization (or via a blastocyst splitting in the very early stages, creating an identical twin - I suppose that would be "new life creation" as well).

I'll quote wikipedia like you seem to enjoy doing.

In biology, an organism is any living system (such as animal, plant, fungus, or micro-organism). In at least some form, all organisms are capable of response to stimuli, reproduction, growth and development, and maintenance of homeostasis as a stable whole. An organism may either be unicellular (single-celled) or be composed of, as in humans, many billions of cells grouped into specialized tissues and organs. The term multicellular (many-celled) describes any organism made up of more than one cell.

And yes, I too think abortion should be used as a last-resort and not an alternative to birth prevention. However, I do not think there should be laws regulating it.

[Rhinox]

hug it out guys.


http://thirdroar.com/paintings/2003-...T-websmall.jpg

brofive comeon

[archibaldcrane]

I'll quote wikipedia like you seem to enjoy doing.



And yes, I too think abortion should be used as a last-resort and not an alternative to birth prevention. However, I do not think there should be laws regulating it.

I've never argued that there is no such thing as a unicellular organism. You, me, and everyone else posting in this thread were, for a brief period of time, a unicellular organism too. In the exact quote you just posted it also mentions that humans are multicellular organisms composed of millions of cells.

Which is exactly what I said.

So...thanks?

And what do you mean there should be no laws regulating it? I don't want women getting back-alley abortions, they should have to be done by licensed medical professionals.

[Benihana]

lol, that picture always makes me laugh. I would think though that most abortions take place after a human life has been thought to have at the very least begun. I also don't think many people would argue for federally getting rid of abortion. I myself think it should be a states issue for people to vote on. I guess it has its drawbacks, but I don't think about it too often since it's not an issue atm; however I don't know why we are talking about abortion now since it was never the topic. =/