Iran's Ahmadinejad: Sept. 11 attacks a 'big lie'

[Stiker]

one point is this is the internet...noone can stop it.

North Korea would like to talk to you.

[Max™]

Funnily, they would have to use the internet in order to do so.


My girlfriend made a great point: "How the fuck do these guys think buildings are supposed to fall? Like a bunch of jenga blocks falling to one side or something? I mean shit, I don't claim to understand half the shit you [me] babble at me about sometimes... but even I know better than to think buildings should fall some way besides straight down."

[Elvis]

Firas, I'm still waiting for you to address the second half of my statement that you cut out: our government was smart enough to lie about everything, yet dumb enough to allow people in our own country to go public with the conspiracy.

I mean, if the government has the kind of massive propaganda control you seem to think it does, why not quash the people trying to expose you? Or better yet, if you are willing to kill thousands of American citizens, including government officials, why stop there? Why not assassinate anyone saying things to the contrary?

I'm pretty sure, we don't need the government to brainwash us or employ mind control.

And I also don't understand the rebuttal, 'George Bush isn't smart enough to mastermind 9/11'.

The President does not all by himself, all the time, formulate policy. He has input, of course, but these are institutional processes. There were reports published by PNAC for example, that said 'change' would require a 'new' Pearl Harbor. Now that's quite a different thing from planning a new Pearl Harbor but I think it's fucking obvious that our media/government/intelligentsia jumped at the opportunity to capitalize off of 9/11.

The whole 'War of Civilizations' (like Therin, alluding to 'terrorist babies') paradigm.

So fine, let's rag on Firas (easy to do, when he says the 'Holocaust' was 'exagerrated' but does not offer any kind of argument, which wouldn't even matter because of social sitgmas/pressures). The guy is an easy target. He's also not aggressive enough, like Leif.

I'd say it's kind of pointless to debate 9/11's 'truthiness' from a tactical perspective.

The goals have been achieved. We went to war, and yada yada yada.

It's just laughable if you think the government NEEDS mind-control/lizards/etc. to shift public opinion. They don't. Does anyone here recall issue awareness polls of Bush voters in 2004? With respect to Kerry voters, the Bushies were just flat-out wrong on most issues AND they didn't even know Bush's stance on stuff like Global Warming.

EDIT:

We don't need to silence people if we can de-legitimize their argument, by laughing them off or calling them kooks. You're looking at a tactic (murder) without first asking whether it would be necessary.

Just look at criticism of Israel. In the States, you're tarred as a Jew-hater quite often for dissenting. ESPECIALLY if you're a politician. That's an example of policing thoughts. Doesn't require special effects, it's INSTITUTIONAL. It's part of our political culture to smear people we disagree with.

And emotional blackmail, straw man, etc. etc. is a big part of the rhetorical strategy of the Zionist Lobby.

Just this past movie season, there was a boycott arranged by Palestinian solidarity activists and Jewish peace groups, like Jewish Voice for Peace, against the Toronto Film Festival. They were not boycotting the right of Israeli film-makers to make films, etc. - but rather, the 'Brand Israel' propaganda mission that was to use the TFF as a way to do damage control for Israel's reputation after Operation Cast Lead.

Several Jewish actors like Natalie Portman and Sascha Boren Cohen, came out saying that this boycott was like something Nazi-related from the 30s or w/e. - I dunno the details, I can look them up if people want a source.

And that's just an example. One example of PURPOSEFUL misunderstanding of a legitimate activist tactic to emotional blackmail people.

So why do we have to keep talking about 'mind control' or 9/11 kookery when our problems are institutional and much more complex.

It's worse than in the movies. It's pervasive and simply part of our culture.

[Demosthenes11]

why is it you can't make a post that doesn't eventually just talk about jews? lol

[Elvis]

It's not 'Jews' (there you go, distilling something into a simplistic, facetious comment) - it's Zionism/Israel and Palestine. It's because that's what I know the most about, so I relate the topic to something I can write about.

Is it a red herring? I think not. The I-P issue is one of the reasons for the 9/11 attacks - right? All of this stuff is related.

EDIT:

Oh and I forgot an obvious example, but Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent, demonstrates - from a materialist perspective - the political economy of the MSM. Again, why do we need 'mind control' or assassinations or other movie-like tactics to silence people when these processes of shifting public opinion are institutionalized?

When it's become so subtle and so commonplace to refer to Israel's nuclear program as 'energy program' and to Iran's nuclear program as 'Jew-bunker busters' (something like that).

[Cadsuane]

I thought that was a pretty good post actually, though if it turns out that the point of it was to legitimize 9/11 conspiracy theories I'm gonna change my mind pretty quickly.

[Max™]

Who all seen the jewish leprechaun, say "yeah!"?

I just wanna know where the gold's at.

[Elvis]

I thought that was a pretty good post actually, though if it turns out that the point of it was to legitimize 9/11 conspiracy theories I'm gonna change my mind pretty quickly.

The point of my post is that I believe it is tactically stupid to debate 9/11.

I haven't put much thought into whether it was orchestrated by someone other than the official story culprits.

I also do not care, because as I said - the goals have been achieved already. It's much more important to debate the actions taken in the name of 9/11.

And all the other stuff I said relates. You simply cannot talk about our ME policy WITHOUT talking about Israel/Palestine/Zionism.

And I don't think it matters that I always (I admit, it's always) bring it up, because I remember the very first time I said it here - someone said to me "why are you saying 'Zionist'? That sounds like someone Ahmedinejad would say."

So yea, I do bring it up a lot (not in threads about The Office or Aion, but in Middle East-related topics, where it would fit into the context) - it's not a red herring. I simply talk about it because it's my way of connecting to this thread's topic.

[ZarakiKujata]

jew + 9/11 stuff

http://www.morethings.com/fan/borat/...n-cohen-15.jpg

We decide not to take airplane to LA in case jews decide to repeat 9/11 attack.

[Elvis]

Here's the post:

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showp...postcount=2938

Date: 09-24-2008, 11:27 AM

That's before Gaza.

I don't want to put people on the spot, but look at some posters in the Cast Lead thread, and compare it to stuff they said months earlier. Views changed. Yet, one of the first times I said 'Zionist' on the forum, I got a similar reaction (in tone, although maybe I'm being presumptuous) as the one I just got now, in 2010, from Demo.

My views have changed too. And I don't post in the Cast Lead thread anymore, which has become a blog of sorts...

[Kuya]

Sometimes, people who are not particularly attractive or whom i have no real inclination towards can be so intelligent in the way they express their ideas that i find myself aroused by them and consequently i tend to focus on their best features and overinflate them.

Elvis, i hope that the thought of homosexuality does not make you so uncomfortable that you cease posting your opinions on this forum.

[kuronosan]

I gotta go with Max here, Firas. I watched this happen and so did a lot of my friends who lived in that area.

If you're fucking retarded enough to think the government brought them down with a controlled demolition just to attack Arab nations, you deserve to be waterboarded with corn syrup.

It boggles me how people can come up with the most ridiculous fucking theories. Government conspiracy of Area 51 I can stomach. Government killing its own people by demolishing buildings when everyone and their brother saw the plane crash into it is just fucking retarded.

How do you fake burning fucking jet fuel melting support beams? Jesus. Go out and learn some engineering you dumbass.

[Ryko]

Throwing your own xenophobe racist bullshit back into your face? That maneuver hardly makes me fucking Rykoshet.

You rang?

[Demosthenes11]

Here's the post:

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showp...postcount=2938

Date: 09-24-2008, 11:27 AM

That's before Gaza.

I don't want to put people on the spot, but look at some posters in the Cast Lead thread, and compare it to stuff they said months earlier. Views changed. Yet, one of the first times I said 'Zionist' on the forum, I got a similar reaction (in tone, although maybe I'm being presumptuous) as the one I just got now, in 2010, from Demo.

My views have changed too. And I don't post in the Cast Lead thread anymore, which has become a blog of sorts...

my reaction wasn't anything but "you know, i haven't seen a post of yours thats not related to gaza or israel or Palestinians. thats a little kinda funny"

it was in no way a critique or reaction to what you posted outside of that lol

[Faris]

I gotta go with Max here, Firas. I watched this happen and so did a lot of my friends who lived in that area.

If you're fucking retarded enough to think the government brought them down with a controlled demolition just to attack Arab nations, you deserve to be waterboarded with corn syrup.

It boggles me how people can come up with the most ridiculous fucking theories. Government conspiracy of Area 51 I can stomach. Government killing its own people by demolishing buildings when everyone and their brother saw the plane crash into it is just fucking retarded.

How do you fake burning fucking jet fuel melting support beams? Jesus. Go out and learn some engineering you dumbass.

i didnt say the government did it you imbecile, learn to read. stop crying

[Pirian]

Lets just all agree that the Jews did it

[Correction]

I say Glenn Beck did it.

[Demosthenes11]

i didnt say the government did it you imbecile, learn to read. stop crying

and again, you can't just look at something and call it fishy without identifying the implications of such accusations. The only way the building collapsing could be fishy is if it was a controlled demolition. That would have to be the government.

unless it was the stonemasons

you can't have it both ways

[Elvis]

my reaction wasn't anything but "you know, i haven't seen a post of yours thats not related to gaza or israel or Palestinians. thats a little kinda funny"

it was in no way a critique or reaction to what you posted outside of that lol

fair enough

i pretty much post on ME stuff here + The Office (best show ever!)

[Faris]

we settled this, it was the jews and this guy called Glenn Beck