Ex-Perserverance, Dioma

[Titanss]

No, there is a stigma towards it, had those posts been by anyone else, they'd have been taken noticed, but because its Nynja, fuck him.

Quit fucking playing that "Oh woe is me!..QQ" bullshit. Look.. most here do know you do know your shit, but you do sometimes make stupid ass posts (everyone does). Unless you are just TRYING to get pity from this.

[Cairthenn]

lol, the aesthetics of botting

On this note, WizBot is a fucking ugly program.

[Yugl]

Why people bot: A documentary.

[FailureMidgard]

For someone so in love with logic, you sure are quick to keep making the same fallacious arguments I've been hearing in this game for the past three years. Quickly:

The argument is about the morality of your decisions. Convenient as it would be to sidestep that argument by accusing me of unethical behavior, that is absolutely not any defense of your own actions.

I agree it is not a defense of my actions. It is a statement as to whether the actions are something that needs defending. You are the one making accusations as to an act being immoral, while you yourself are committing immoral acts, which leads me to question whether or not you truly believe the act is indeed immoral. If you do, you are a hypocrite, and while it is in no way a defense of my actions, it doesn't seem worth the time to debate it with you. If you don't, then at least you are going in a correct path, and it may be worth debating with you.

I in fact don't use Spellcast and suspect that Square frowns on its use.

I do use Windower. I even use the Recast plugin, which I acknowledge gives me a miniscule advantage over those who don't. I am willing to concede the moral high ground to those who don't, and wouldn't think twice about giving them the heave-ho if Square were to reverse their unofficial position on Windower.

Ok...

There is a very obvious distinction to be made between tools which make your game a little easier and those which directly effect competition with other players. You know this just as clearly as I do, you are just one of many willing to tell yourself otherwise out of self-interest.

And here is where I'm not sure I agree with you. I think (and you are free to prove me wrong) that you have no real code as to what is ok and what isn't, and instead just make a biased case by case decision as to what you feel is morally wrong. I am going to use some silly examples, not because it's a defense, I fully realize it is not, but because all I am doing is picking holes in your offense, because you really have no ground to stand on.

High-speed internet is a tool that gives you an advantage.
Ventrilo is a tool that gives you an advantage.
Internet Explorer (ok, Firefox really) is a tool that gives you an advantage.

On the other side of the spectrum, I can easily argue that a claimbot is actually just a convenience. They don't do anything except let you set a delay (or set one for you) and cause a spell to go off at said delay. That's it. Guess what, I can use math and fast cast to do the same thing. It's just a fuckton of effort to coordinate who's going to rdm main dia, rdm sub dia, rdm main stone 1, rdm main stone 1 with afhead, rdm main stone1 with afhead and relic body, no rdm dia, etc. Everyone spams, you spread your delays out as equally as you desire. The claimbot saves you the effort of figuring this out, the effort of paying attention.
Deathspot scanner for DI/SW? Yea, it saves a fuckton of annoyance of hitting widescan every goddamn 20 seconds. I feel sorry for someone that has to do it manually, all this is is convenience (which, not coincidentally leads to more claims because your scanners aren't afk, or tabbed out).
Deathspot scanner for Tia/Khim...ya, we'll assume you're not gonna argue this one.


Competition with other players is not the baseline for morality. Salvage duping was wrong - not because of competition with other players. It in fact, did not harm other players in any way shape or form.

And what about LGM? It allows me to parse better in Ein and Dyna, does that make it a convenience, or something that "directly affects competition with other players". Little of both? But it doesn't hurt anyone.

While I doubt you actually have any trouble understanding what I've said, here goes: Keeping members motivated and happy is an even bigger challenge for shells where everyone sees a large portion of the shell's work going to a few members in the form of discounted relics. Without fail this challenge seems to be met by staying on the cutting edge of in-game cheating. Yes, other shells cheat too, but it is more pervasive in these shells because it has to be, and the net result is that the endgame community has adopted a form of nihilism to justify their actions.

I think you got the cause and effect backwards, or it's a chicken/egg thing. Shells get the bot so that they can be successful, create relics, do good payouts. They don't all get the bot because they are abusing their shell to create relics, and need a way to appease the masses...

[Evildemon]

Wow totally need to read this whole thread in the morning. But I knew what was going down before it did from an inside tip. My opinion, Dioma did have it made in pers had his own bunch of idiots he paraded around but I guess after a while idiots do get tired and need a new trip so maybe he'll have some fun on phoenix...

FYI for those who don't already know (Haven't really read more than first couple of posts) a good portion of Apathy is now on shiva which i confirmed via a mule that i borrowed from a friend.

[chiyio]

I agree...

In the time it took you to write that up, you could have searched for the "OMG, I HEARD NYNJA RMT'D HIS RELIC thread"


You made shit up, and I'm calling you on it. Lets see some screenshots of these private messages from people telling you this shit at the very least.

[Cairthenn]

a good portion of Apathy is now on shiva which i confirmed via a mule that i borrowed from a friend.

Doesn't really appear to be much of a secret: http://www.ffxiah.com/linkshell.php?id=19839

[Titanss]

You made shit up, and I'm calling you on it. Lets see some screenshots of these private messages from people telling you this shit at the very least.

He did say the admin of this forum told him that.. I want to see this also.

[NynJa]

Quit fucking playing that "Oh woe is me!..QQ" bullshit. Look.. most here do know you do know your shit, but you do sometimes make stupid ass posts (everyone does). Unless you are just TRYING to get pity from this.

I don't want anyones pity, I'm not looking for woe is me. Look over the thread from the first post again, please tell me when I went out looking to start drama. My first post, which I made 30 minutes of getting home from work said "I heard a rumor...", half of it was true, half of it was false. It was very slim details, thats what this section is for, is it not? Then came fucking stupid accusations from left field about me circle jerking to ffxiah rankings...which I then pointed out where they came from (random fail thread), which is once again, someone trying to start drama with me.

Yes, theres still leftover stigma from when Aurik/Wafik fuckered off. Judging by the fact Sath is friends with Aurik, I think my claim holds merit. Aurik...the first one to tell me I was a fucking moron for thinking Sea Torques were any good. And I was the hypocrite....

He did say the admin of this forum told him that.. I want to see this also.

You and me both. I'm telling you, they mixed me up with Divisortheory, unless I dropped 4,000$ USD for a relic in my sleep, woke up with 500 billion gil, and every server minus Gilgamesh knows about it.
I'm not even expecting an apology at this point, "oops got names confused, you're still a fucking loser" will satisfy me.

[FailureMidgard]

Also, you aren't looking for this RMT'd relic evidence, because you wont find it. You made it up. Plenty of people (who don't know him) hate Nynja, but this was totally unfounded.

You're free to believe that, but like usual you're wrong. I wasn't here then, I don't know who posted what where when. It's far more effort than I care to exert, and again, the credible people are saying it, so have fun with that.

Love how I have no credibility because I'm not hating on Nynja, and calling you out that you made it up, heh.

No? Because you are an idiot. Here's 3 "standard" posts by you.
http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showp...7&postcount=60
http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showp...&postcount=199
http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showp...&postcount=212


For what it's worth, I'm about the most loved taru on my server, and totally drama free [/QUOTE]

No, you're saying Chiyio has no credibility because he's a friend of mine, dont get shit twisted. dDEX/crit tiers were first thought up on the work of himself and Ravenlokk (gasp, another friend of mine). Those two were the first to point out any tier systems in the game, everything was thought to be linear. No, he has credibility, you're just trying to shut him down via your witch hunt, the very same one you're accusing me of trying to create.

See above, but you seem to be bad at reading, so I doubt that will help much.

Dont believe me? I made 5 posts on the lv99 speculation thread. Not one post of those was anything remotely close to any idiotic kinda posting you're referring to. Yet, all 5 posts got ignored, and on top of it, got further posts later asking the very things I mentioned in my post. No, there is a stigma towards it, had those posts been by anyone else, they'd have been taken noticed, but because its Nynja, fuck him.

"If you're zerging something, the amount of TP fed from all ~12 people will probably outdo the 50%TP (percent of TP on mob, not 50TP) cap that Absorb-TP seems to have."
'grats on stating the obvious. And I'm serious when I say this, I didn't think you actually had a realistic grasp of the obvious.
" Theres still a LOT of people who havent even unlocked sea, yet have made it all the way through ToAU and WoTG, what does that tell you? "
There's also a lot of people that have finished sea, and haven't made it halfway through ToAU and/or WoTG. Did you know some people even have mules? WTF right?
2 post that aren't even worth responding to.
"Thanks all the elites who keep boasting about 25-30k/hr merit pt's, the smn burns who boast 40-60k/hr. The bar has to be set high now."
LOL, really? Right, it's everyone boasting on BG that's going to make it 120k TNL. You're a joke, you know? BTW, it won't be 120k TNL.

I would like to take a second to apologize right now for not flaming you in that thread, since it seems that you're butthurt nobody responded. Will you forgive me please?

[Lamo]

Dio QnA on forum go?

[chiyio]

You're free to believe that, but like usual you're wrong. I wasn't here then, I don't know who posted what where when. It's far more effort than I care to exert, and again, the credible people are saying it, so have fun with that.

wait, you have time to search on me, but searching for what would be a HUGE drama thread is "far more effort than I care to exert"
That's two fairly large posts for somebody who doesn't have the time to find the thread that backs up their claims.
I'm not going to let this drop.


Again, I'm calling you out. You made it up. You are a lying piece of shit.

*edit Isn't there a drama thread sticky, surely it would be in there?

[NynJa]

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...309_031815.png
Think you can top that? >.>

[FailureMidgard]

wait, you have time to search on me, but searching for what would be a HUGE drama thread is "far more effort than I care to exert"
That's two fairly large posts for somebody who doesn't have the time to find the thread that backs up their claims.
I'm not going to let this drop.


Again, I'm calling you out. You made it up. You are a lying piece of shit.

*edit Isn't there a drama thread sticky, surely it would be in there?

...you aren't grasping the fact that when I know exactly what to look for, I can find it almost instantly, and when I have no idea what to search other than some random keywords like "ige" it's going to take me ages to go through it all? Really? Holy fuck you're stupid.

http://www.risen-guild.com/fail/hinynja.png

[chiyio]

...you aren't grasping the fact that when I know exactly what to look for, I can find it almost instantly, and when I have no idea what to search other than some random keywords like "ige" it's going to take me ages to go through it all? Really? Holy fuck you're stupid.

http://www.risen-guild.com/fail/hinynja.png

so there isn't a drama sticky?

and you can't just post screenshots of PM's?

Still calling you out, you made it up. Thanks for posting evidence of you trying to find shit and failing though

and yes, random keywords like Nynja RMT, IGE, RELIC, MANDUEEEE. these things make finding a thread difficult, I feel for you, really, I do. either you fail at the internet more than anybody thought possible, or you made it up. probably both.

[Weeks]

An inherent problem with this is I can assure you that not everybody in a Linkshell (even a higher end one) is going to necessarily want a relic. However, if - and that's a big if - everyone in the shell were to want a relic, that would logically imply that they're willing to put a large time investment in the game and in the Linkshell. It's essentially self-motivating; you'll get as much done as you and the people around you are willing to.

Whether they want a relic or not, there are members who are not getting rewarded commensurate to the amount of work they've put in, because leadership decided that it was fair to overreward some members for the sake of obtaining relics. This is a major factor in the motivation of any member who is not too stupid to understand basic economics.

As Failure pointed out already, botting in this age is almost necessary to push for success (and if not necessary, extremely helpful).

I'm not denying that there is a vicious cycle. I'm saying that what is fueling this cycle is the need for certain shells to utterly dominate a server's endgame scene, which requires a constant escalation of the use of cheat tools.

However, if you're able to gain an advantage over others, both for yourself and your linkshell, through something such as botting, why would you not? Simply because it's against the rules?

Because of the effect on people outside of my linkshell. It's easy to tell yourself that there are no innocent victims in endgame, but you're fooling yourself. For several years I chose to work longer and harder for my gear to avoid selling out that principle, and I chose to leave endgame altogether when the shell folded.

High-speed internet is a tool that gives you an advantage.
Ventrilo is a tool that gives you an advantage.
Internet Explorer (ok, Firefox really) is a tool that gives you an advantage.

None of which is prohibited by Square or directly effects the experience of other players. The distinction is clear enough to be intuitive.

Guess what, I can use math and fast cast to do the same thing. It's just a fuckton of effort to coordinate who's going to rdm main dia, rdm sub dia, rdm main stone 1, rdm main stone 1 with afhead, rdm main stone1 with afhead and relic body, no rdm dia, etc. Everyone spams, you spread your delays out as equally as you desire. The claimbot saves you the effort of figuring this out, the effort of paying attention.

The claimbot also automates the task with a level of timing precision which is physiologically impossible for a group of humans to mimic. There is absolutely no amount of work you can do to wind up with a claim rate remotely close to what you're obtaining by botting, and I can't believe this ridiculous argument is still being attempted.

Competition with other players is not the baseline for morality. Salvage duping was wrong - not because of competition with other players. It in fact, did not harm other players in any way shape or form.

Adversely effecting the play of other players is a baseline for morality. I don't know that it would even be possible to define "morality" in such a way that it is not. The fact that circumventing game mechanics to enrich yourself is also wrong does not invalidate that.

[Titanss]

http://www.risen-guild.com/fail/hinynja.png

All that is Ladyofhonor (Divisor) they are talking about they got mixed up.

Edit: Except the botting

[Brhee]

Nynja botted rusty caps in rabao for a PCC in 2003. I dont have a screenshot but ill bring in witnesses to prove it.

P.S. Marcin says fuck you all.

[FailureMidgard]

so there isn't a drama sticky?

and you can't just post screenshots of PM's?

Still calling you out, you made it up. Thanks for posting evidence of you trying to find shit and failing though

What are you smoking? That is a screenshot of what people said, exactly like you asked. Sorry for blurring out people's AIM/MSN names? Rather not post that on a public forum without their permission?

As for the drama sticky, that isn't exactly any easier to go though, maybe people that were around recognize the name of the post and know everything contained, I don't still. You really are dense. I'm specifically -not- going on a witchhunt, I'm trusting the people that I well, trust, and ignoring the idiots like you.

[NynJa]

...you aren't grasping the fact that when I know exactly what to look for, I can find it almost instantly, and when I have no idea what to search other than some random keywords like "ige" it's going to take me ages to go through it all? Really? Holy fuck you're stupid.

http://www.risen-guild.com/fail/hinynja.png

That's some awesome proof. You're on the right track though. Taj did hack into Divisortheory's hotmail accounts to get the paypal receipts.

LOL, really? Right, it's everyone boasting on BG that's going to make it 120k TNL. You're a joke, you know? BTW, it won't be 120k TNL.

chiyio says:
girl in the next office has a masters in math, and another degree in statistics, I'll make her do it
Josh says:
lol
51-62 = 1200 jump
62-70, 1500 jump
70-75 = 2000 jump
presuming the jumps dont get any higher, and the new the xp to lvl up remains constant
assuming I didnt fuck up, to cap out lv99 should be 92k xp
but theres a clear parabola in effect from when the xp caps were changed