What's Better?

[sruon]

possible with 58.5% double attack rate lol ( 50% OAT+ 17% DA= 58.5 OAT). assuming the OAT happens on Weapons skills, otherwise it would probably not beat hagun.

Has anyone unlocked the weapon yet to find out about OAT procing on WS?

Really doubt it will though...

What about the 3rd GKT? Radennotachi vs Hagun

Thanks for the answer~

[Ocara]

Math of Kurodachi versus hagun.

Assumption: sam/war full time on the mob, hagun with 20% haste gear, 6 hit build, 17% Double attack. . Haste and double march. You never miss WS, and OAT can proc on WS.

Why would you assume this? No other OAT weapon works this way. We also don't know if the base before augment damage determines weapon rank or if it's the total, another thing that keeps getting overlooked. (If other augmented weapons use pre-augment base damage to determine rank, it'd make sense for these to follow the same pattern being augmented weapons) This all really just needs testing or it's baseless speculation.

[sruon]

Why would you assume this? No other OAT weapon works this way. We also don't know if the base before augment damage determines weapon rank or if it's the total, another thing that keeps getting overlooked. (If other augmented weapons use pre-augment base damage to determine rank, it'd make sense for these to follow the same pattern being augmented weapons) This all really just needs testing or it's baseless speculation.

What about sea weapons? Not that I ever used them myself so I can't say.

[chazzyphizzle]

They are the only exception until someone finds out otherwise with these new weapons.

[Ocara]

Sea weapons don't proc on ws either. And the question about OAT on ws was asked in this very thread... There's no reason to believe it will work that way.

Edit: Actually it was asked in randomer question, but still.

[Raen Ryong]

sword strap is not 3%. With 0 haste, it'd be 3.09%, but it's less effective with haste. You calculate it with .03*(1-haste). It's multiplicative, so the more you have of the other the less effective it is, much like haste and dw (or fast cast) lower the effect of the other.

Hmm, I've never thought about this embarrassingly. It makes sense though, since if you compare 10% Haste to 5% DW + 5% Haste,

90% of 100Delay (say) is 90
95% of 95% of 100Delay is 90.25

So as expected, not an equal result. This means Sword Strap is pretty dire and at ~36%+ Haste, will always lose to a Pole Grip... (a little higher for WAR or /WAR, ~43%). At least using the formula above.

EDIT: Actually, it'll lose at an even lower % of Haste, presuming the above to be true. This is because I haven't factored in the fact that

Pole Grip = TP damage + WS frequency + WS damage (+ Jump damages etc)
Sword Strap = TP damage + WS frequency

Any other input from people?

[noodles355]

That last edit was why I brought it up originally, I don't think there's any other comparisons where you consider peices having: WS frequency vs frequency+damage.
Maybe because no other comparison uses that, no one bothered to do it for sword/pole, and so people just assumed 3% > 1.8 (or less War or /war)%, thus sword better if doesn't affet Xhit...

[mdkuser]

Sea weapons don't proc on ws either. And the question about OAT on ws was asked in this very thread... There's no reason to believe it will work that way.

Edit: Actually it was asked in randomer question, but still.

I was told jailer weapons proc during WS unlike other weapons. But anyway you have to make assumptions to do the maths, so in the best case scenario it would be 22% better than hagun. if it doesn't proc during WS then well it might beat hagun but certainly not rindomaru.

[Shinryuu]

sword strap is not 3%. With 0 haste, it'd be 3.09%, but it's less effective with haste. You calculate it with .03*(1-haste). It's multiplicative, so the more you have of the other the less effective it is, much like haste and dw (or fast cast) lower the effect of the other.

Not true. Terrible terrible logic. Raen, I am disappoint son.

1000 delay, going from nothing to sword strap is 970 delay (3.09% increase in damage if same x-hit).
Add 90% haste. 100 delay, going from 100 to 97 delay is an increase of what? That's right, 3.09%. For TP-per-hit purposes you should calculate sword strap delay first and then haste but for raw delay it doesn't matter which you calculate; they're multiplicative and sword strap is for 2-handers and you use sword strap if it doesn't kill your x-hit anyway so the point is moot.

[noodles355]

By your argument then, it's always a 3.09% increase, but if you have 65/35 TP/WS then pole grip would be 1.9% (TP+WS frequency) + (1.9*0.65) (WS damage) which is 3.14 which is still higher than 3.09.

[rog]

hmmm...

[Raen Ryong]

Hmm, idk. Must've been a blank moment for me. I am disappoint also

[Shinryuu]

By your argument then, it's always a 3.09% increase, but if you have 65/35 TP/WS then pole grip would be 1.9% (TP+WS frequency) + (1.9*0.65) (WS damage) which is 3.14 which is still higher than 3.09.

Mathed that badly. Second thing should be 1.019*1.065 assuming you're talking about a 6.5% increase for a DA proc in WS (tired, sorry if that's not it). It's a 0.8%ish increase making the total 2.7%. Then again I don't care about sword vs pole but I just saw something stupid and people not opposing said stupid so I jumped in god what a terrible day I'm having.

[noodles355]

I was doing (65% of 1.9)+1.9, is that not correct? (1.9 because Drg/Sam, ofc it will be less for Sam/War or War/Xxx

I originally started this discussion because I was unsure how to measure frequency vs frequency+damage.

[Shinryuu]

assuming you're talking about a 65% increase for a DA proc in WS

Are you?

[noodles355]

Not sure, wasn't thinking about what % increase a DA proc would be on a WS, was just thinking that adding 2% DA to your WS set would give a 1.9 boost over time for WS damage, (and saying that WS damage is 65% of my total damage)

[The Stig]

Repost

Rasetsu Tekko (Eva+10) or Seiryu's Kote (AGI+15) for Evasion build on NIN? (soloing)

[mdkuser]

2 agi = 1 eva so +10 eva.

[Yugl]

Mathed that badly. Second thing should be 1.019*1.065 assuming you're talking about a 6.5% increase for a DA proc in WS (tired, sorry if that's not it). It's a 0.8%ish increase making the total 2.7%. Then again I don't care about sword vs pole but I just saw something stupid and people not opposing said stupid so I jumped in god what a terrible day I'm having.

I wasn't on even on BG when it happened!

Ares v Askar (I forgot Ares existed)

7 STR 12 ATT v 2% DA. Good call.

[konoko]

If you use Pizza, Askar >>>>>>>> Homam. On colibri the situation may change depending on the rest of your gear. Wyrm Body+1, Noct Body, and Aurum (If you can take advantage of sword strap) aside, Askar is the best body piece for DRG when at capped ACC, which it should be in many cases when using Pizza.

Will check on jump question later (Or I might forget).

lol... now thanks to a windfall in ls Today, i have Aurum Body :<