What's Better?

[CDF]

Guilty as charged on focusing blindly on arithmetic rather than the conceptual underpinning. Ok, after that poor reasoning, here is a simpler way to show "it depends" (instead of the incorrect assertion that fixed WS delay alone is not enough to "invert").

Suppose the damage rate (also accounting for WS damage) for weapon A is a, and that for weapon B is b, and that a > b. Now, suppose that it takes time t1 for weapon A to WS, and time t2 for weapon B to WS, and t1 < t2.

After accounting for some fixed WS delay d (delay >= 0), we cannot say whether the adjusted damage rate for weapon A, a*t1/(t1 + d), is still greater than that for weapon B, b*t2/(t2 + d), because [t2/(t2 + d)]/[t1/(t1 + d)] > 1 as t1 < t2. It depends on the difference between weapon A and weapon B damage rates (a, b).

For Byrthnoth's example, t1 = 40/3 seconds for Soboro and t2 = 20 seconds for Hagun. With the implied 1-second WS delay (d = 1), [t2/(t2 + d)]/[t1/(t1 + d)] = 1.023810. For the 1-second WS delay to bring Soboro on par with Hagun, it follows that Soboro must be ~2.38% better than Hagun without the WS delay (based on ratio 1.023810).

Without WS delay, Soboro's WS frequency is 50% higher than Hagun's, and with the WS delay, 46.51%? It follows that the reduction in Soboro "efficiency" is 6.98% and the reduction in Hagun's "efficiency" is 4.76%.

Of course, human reaction time can also play a role.

[Vodak]

Hi, actually i have troubles to chose what daggers pick on the new trials and I don't have time to make all daggers to test by myself so I apreciate if someone help me to save time.

I'm working on daggers for THF/NIN and /DRK /DNC also, no merits yet but i'll put 8/8 on it hopefully soon. For more info I use THF for different things like endgame, farm, campaign, salvage etc... and no, i not always have to equip my TH4 cause in my ls are 4 THFs with it (3x xarca = 3x drop, unbeliable but true). So...

Kartika with dmg 38

Athame with dmg 31 delay 211 and OAT

Dakini with dmg 34 delay 190 DEX+4 Accuracy+8

I think Kartika/Athame for tp versus <VT or Shusi are great due de OAT but this DEX+4 Accu+8 sounds really good for DE. Also, for any non /NIN Kartika seems a nice main hand but Dakini have the same dmg base while SA (the 4DEX are in fact 4 more damage base when SA is up).

Well this is the question, Kartika/Athame or Kartika/Dakini and also for no /NIN which one? thanks and sorry if here is any typo, i'm still working on my inglish ._.

[Yugl]

Someone suggested getting the DEF Down Knife + the OAT knife earlier in this thread.

[Vodak]

Yes but i don't like the "Aditional Effect" daggers. Other guys said something about this before and they was speaking something like

D38/OAT for regular mobs

D38/Dakini for any endgame event where get extra tp from OAT means give the same amount to the mob and due the A- dagger skill on THF you accuracy always will suck.

For no /NIN D38 or OAT when fighting regular mobs and Dakini for endgame.

I'm right? If not pls correct me.

Notice that I don't have Mandau/Vajra/X's and prolly wont have it never. However i already have a blau if you think can replace one of the daggers i chose. Thanks.

[Dathus]

For a MNK who's just going to be in Salvage and only leveling it to 75 for that reason, would the following be a good set-up?

http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=136811

Really doubt I'll see Byakko's, so I was thinking get Usu tiered while I'm still on my RDM. Most the rest is stuff that would be carried over from other jobs.

[Benz]

monk cant wear dusk gloves. enkidu's leggings probably not better than fuma's in any salvage situation, aside from hundred fists* since you'll be needing pizza to cap acc anyways.

[Dathus]

monk cant wear dusk gloves. enkidu's leggings probably not better than fuma's in any salvage situation, aside from hundred fists* since you'll be needing pizza to cap acc anyways.

Wow didn't even notice MNK couldn't use Dusk. Ok, so scratch those. Trade Enkidu for Fuma and I should be set, and get O.Kotes for hands?

[Thorny]

You could take the 800 currency you have saved toward gungnir, sell it, and buy 2 byakko sets. There's no reason to TP in usu legs when you don't have the set.

[Yugl]

I'll come kill Byakko with ya if you let me lot the hands.

[Dathus]

You could take the 800 currency you have saved toward gungnir, sell it, and buy 2 byakko sets. There's no reason to TP in usu legs when you don't have the set.

Let's see. Salvage job that won't see use outside it, or a relic I would rather have. Tough choice. No thanks.

@Yugl: Lolno. I need'em first.

[Thorny]

Let's see. Salvage job that won't see use outside it, or a relic I won't ever finish.

The haidate are more useful.

[Yugl]

Well, I tried.

[Shamaya]

This is a couple pages back but just wanna touch it for a sec,

Someone posted some testing information from Alla about WS and JA delays recently, but I don't remember where on BG it was posted.

If it's the Shamaya stuff, it's not accurate. Using JA0Wait and spamming JAs nonstop won't slow down your attack more than the last one would, implying if there is a wait it's somehow tied to animation delay. This in itself is a fallacy though, as server side cannot see your animation delay and I would hope melee delay is always server side.

Well, I know I can go Waltz II -> Samba -> Waltz II between swings on WAR/DNC with a 504 GA and 19% Haste in gear. Waltz is an 8 second recast and it takes me 6.8 seconds to swing, so there's some kind of delay there.

It's not my stuff, I've just quoted it a couple of times. You can find the testing/thread here. I wouldn't say it's exactly finished, but it's definitely a start and I don't really see any reason JA delay should be rejected. Idk about JA0 really. That is rather strange that Thorny is saying with JA0 thingy he's noticing no increased delay, but yet Byrthnoth's example is a perfectly clear case. I too have checked it just to be sure. Anyone can make some macros and go through 10 secs+ worth of JA's without attacking once in between, just to see for themselves.

At this point in time though, it's really important to include the delay in our calculations. Especially for Sams or anything with a really high WS rate.

As far as accuracy, i.e. how long the pauses are, I just go by what's in the thread in the link. Even if it's not 100% spot-on, it's definitely more accuracy-enriching to use that info than to ignore it completely.

[Yugl]

I think he's talking about a program. You could try getting the program then using JAs during a zerg to see if hits go through the animation. I know some hits do on PS3.

[DantesTheBannedPLD]

This has probably been asked/answered here but, whats better
Radennotachi
DMG:79 Delay: 450
DMG+10

Or

Hagun
DMG:75
TP bonus?

[eva00r]

SAM/THF SA+Gekko

Grip/Body/Hands

Brave/Shinku Togi/Shinku Kote
or
Axe/Osode/Alky

STR+7 Atk+8 Inc. Crit Damage x3
or
STR+24

[Quantic Dream]

What's better to full time (TP and WS) for an Amanomurakumo SAM, Olibanum Sachet or Smart Grenade?

[Dooom]

Why would you full time either? You can swap ammos without losing TP.

[Quantic Dream]

Long story as to why, but I am forced to full time one or the other for now...

[Raen Ryong]

Basically meaning plasticsurgeon :D?

They're both pretty meh honestly. I'd just use the STR one in case it bumps your fSTR/WSC(on WS) up by 1...