What's Better?

[Arximiro]

I realized that after I posted, then I assumed most War use Bomblet regardless out of laziness so I just left it. I'll just stick to Pole Grip screw it. ^^

[Arximiro]

If you have 20% gear haste, haste spell, and double march, how much Delay does Sword Strap take away? Jw, I dunno how to figure it up, or if it reduces the delay before Haste or after haste.

[Chen]

3%

[Arximiro]

3%

Oh no shit! I meant of a 504 delay Gaxe, I should have put that.

[Dathus]

According to FFXI Calc it's counted AFTER haste and everything else is counted.

Base without haste was 504 > 488

After Haste/Marches it went to 288 > 235

[Arximiro]

So it would become more potent the more haste you have? Wouldn't that make it equal to or more than a 3% haste equivalent in attack speed?

[Dathus]

Shit. I hit the 8 instead of the two. It's 228 not 288.

It's less potent the more haste you have. So it's 235 > 228 or 7 vs the 504 > 488 or 16.

[Taint]

Its less potent the more haste you have, since its factored after haste.

[Arximiro]

Ah Gay :/

[Raen Ryong]

Should it not remain the same?

Final Delay = Base Delay * Haste Reduction * Delay- Reduction

Where Haste Reduction = (1 - Haste/100) and Delay- Reduction = (1 - [Delay-]/100).

Multiplication is commutative, so abc = cba = bac etc.

So flooring aside, it doesn't really matter which order you do the multiplication, and one cannot weaken the other. Using your numbers above;

504 * 0.97 = 488.88 (I don't know where FFXI floors ingame delay so I will leave it in its full decimal form)

(504 - 488.88 )/504 = 3% reduction in delay

And 235 * 0.97 = 227.95

(235 - 227.95)/235 = 3% reduction in delay

The reduction amount is equal before and after haste is taken into account (except flooring). The reason your fractions from above will look different is because you've performed the rounding/flooring yourself

[Arximiro]

3% of 500 is more than 3% of 250, not the exact numbers but isn't that the point?

[Raen Ryong]

Nah, in either case you're attacking 3% faster. In terms of absolute values you're right but with or without Haste, Delay- retains the same proportional delay reduction.

[Arximiro]

Nah, in either case you're attacking 3% faster. In terms of absolute values you're right but with or without Haste, Delay- retains the same proportional delay reduction.

A larger portion of delay being taken away is going to enhance attack speed more than a smaller portion no? Or is there some sort of magical math I'm not understanding. It's still 3%, but 3% isn't as much by the time it's factored in is it?

I can't even do Algebra anymore so I'm not going to try to argue the math, but that just seems like common sense.

[Arximiro]

So then anyone who says it is less useful the more haste you have is full of shit? It would be nice to have a final word on this, people saying both things...

[Byrthnoth]

I do not know of any testing that has been done to determine how Haste and Delay -% interact. I would guess that it doesn't matter and they're full of shit.

[Dathus]

If you can maintain your build go with the -Delay. Though I'd say Pole Grip is best IMO but that's a matter of opinion.

If the -Delay fucks with your build then don't use it.

[ringthree]

If you can maintain your build go with the -Delay. Though I'd say Pole Grip is best IMO but that's a matter of opinion.

If the -Delay fucks with your build then don't use it.

That math was done a long time ago when it was determined you could use the Sword Strap with enough Store TP. Sword Strap is better if you can use it without making any other changes to your gear.

[Arximiro]

What about when the change is like was said earlier R3 where it's 3%- Delay vs. 12atk 2%Da?

[Raen Ryong]

It looks deceptively like it might be the case, but not really. Depending on how the flooring works, there may be a minor difference.

[Chen]

could've saved yourself all the bother and just accepted my answer!

and to answer the question before, if you stick to pole grip you're not relying on 2/3 hits on most builts. even with 95% acc you're still going to miss 2/3 hits what... 85%of the time?

edit again: even if the 2% DA, 12ATK is beaten by 3% delay reduction, the sword strap will do nothing for WS where you're looking at a probably 3-4% dmg increase from pole setup