What's Better?

[Neosutra]

We're talking about

Usu body + sword strap + fumas

vs.

Hauby+1 + Pole grip + usu feet.

Remember the whole "why the fuck would you advocate fumas over usu feet" post? I realize it was like FOUR whole posts ago, but jesus, try and keep up.

And lol @ adding anyone that points the flaws in your RETARDED suggestions to your ignore list. Please, dont do that, it would kill me inside! Go back to TPing in str rings with Pchan, and stop giving bad advice on these forums.

[Neosutra]

This must be the fastest Mdkuser has ever "made a stupid comment/suggestion" -> "had 2-3 people show him he is wrong" -> "Foamed at the mouth and add them to his ignore list" -> "end debate". Figured he would argue for at least 2 more pages about how he meant 3 difference combinations and how you never need acc or attack because of pizza.

[HKR]

For a black mage resting set, would a demon's cloak with it's refresh effect be better then a vivacity coat with hmp +2?

[Dooom]

Yes. I think you need 4 or 5hMP on gear for it to beat 1/tic refresh.

[Limlight]

holy crap at all this

[Rocl]

Yes. I think you need 4 or 5hMP on gear for it to beat 1/tic refresh.

Don't quote me on this, but I believe it's anything above 4 HMP, as 1mp/tic Refresh is equal to like 3.3333etc HMP? I have a very vague and untrustworthy memory though.

[Dooom]

Yeah, that's right Rocl, can get 3 tics of refresh in for each hMP tic (except for the first one which is longer anyway, but for the first I normally start in refresh items then swap to errant etc. after a few refresh tics).

[Chen]

For a black mage resting set, would a demon's cloak with it's refresh effect be better then a vivacity coat with hmp +2?

is this specifically for a under lv. 72 resting set? if not why not just use errant since BLM needs to carry it anyway for SS/BLM debuffs and it's cheap

[Cream Soda]

So, apparently, wargfang's 40% OAT proc works with footwork up. Basically wanting to see what's going to be better w/ h2h build vs footwork build and see if it changes anything for maximum gearing. For the poster's specific builds, he was able to get a 10% increase out of the footwork build.

Spoiler: show

Because the gearsets change somewhat, I'm going to have to rebuild the predicted values. Summary at bottom.

Not going to fully optimize gear swaps since it's a lot of hassle, plus other people will have different gear available.

Target: Level 82 GColibri w/Dia II

Base stats:

Taru Mnk/nin
Str: 67 (w/merits)
Dex: 71
Skill: 292 (282 acc/300 att)

Food: Mithkabobs (5 str/60 att)
Buffs: Haste + 2xMarch

Gear sets (based on my own):

Default/Focus up

Destroyers///Tiphia
Turban/PCC/Brutal/Aesir
ACP(acc/att)/OKote/Rajas/Ulth
Forager/Black/Byakko/Usu

+Str: +20
+Dex: +25
+Att: +65
+Acc: +33
+Crit: +6%
+Haste: +24%

Totals:
Str: 92
Dex: 96
Att: 471
Acc: 393
Boosted Att: 548

Hit rate: 88%
cRatio: 1.247
WS cRatio: 1.508
Crit rate: 18%/12%
Delay/round: 143
fStr: 7


Default/Focus down

Destroyers///Tiphia
Turban/PCC/Brutal/Aesir
ACP(acc/att)/Usu/Rajas/Ulth
Forager/Black/Byakko/Usu

+Str: +20
+Dex: +25
+Att: +45
+Acc: +43
+Crit: +6%
+Haste: +24%


Totals:
Str: 92
Dex: 96
Att: 451
Acc: 373
Boosted Att: 524

Hit rate: 78%
cRatio: 1.179
WS cRatio: 1.426
Crit rate: 18%/12%
Delay/round: 143
fStr: 7


5.5 TP/hit
16 + 2 hits per weaponskill.
2.25 hits/round
8 rounds/weaponskill (before acc)

WSC assumed to be 14

Asuran during Focus: (53 + 7 + 14) * 8.1 * .88 * 1.508 = 795
Asuran without Focus: (53 + 7 + 14) * 8.1 * .78 * 1.426 = 667


Taking a 5 minute sample:

2 minutes (Focus) = 7200 delay

Rounds/WS: 8 / 0.88 = 9.09
9.09 * 143 = 1300
+180 for boost+weaponskill = 1500

WS cycles during Focus: 4.8

Melee hits: 4.8 * 18 = 86.4
93.333% is punch, 6.667% is kick
Punch: 80.64
Kick: 5.76

Punch Avg: (53+7) * 1.243 * .82 + (53+7) * 2.243 * .18 = 85.38
Kick Avg: (35+7) * 1.243 * .88 + (35+7) * 2.243 * .12 = 57.246

Total melee damage: 80.64 * 85.38 + 5.76 * 57.246 = 7,215
Total WS damage: 795 * 4.8 = 3,816

Total damage: 11,031


3 minutes (no Focus) = 10800 delay

Rounds/WS: 8 / 0.78 = 10.26
10.26 * 143 = 1467
+180 for boost+weaponskill = 1,647

WS cycles without Focus: 6.56

Melee hits: 6.56 * 18 = 118.08
93.333% is punch, 6.667% is kick
Punch: 111.21
Kick: 7.87

Punch Avg: (53+7) * 1.175 * .82 + (53+7) * 2.175 * .18 = 81.3
Kick Avg: (35+7) * 1.175 * .88 + (35+7) * 2.175 * .12 = 54.39

Total melee damage: 111.21 * 81.3 + 7.87 * 54.39 = 9,469
Total WS damage: 667 * 6.56 = 4,376

Total damage: 13,845


5 minute damage total: 24,876


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

w/Footwork

Taru Mnk/nin
Str: 67 (w/merits)
Dex: 71
Skill: 292 (282 acc/300 att)

Food: Mithkabobs (5 str/60 att)
Buffs: Haste + 2xMarch

Gear sets (based on my own):

Default/Focus up

Wargs///Tiphia
Turban/PCC/Brutal/Aesir
ACP(acc/att)/OKote/Rajas/Ulth
Forager/Black/Byakko/KKs

+Str: +20
+Dex: +25
+Att: +78
+Acc: +46
+Haste: +22%

Totals:
Str: 92
Dex: 96
Att: 525
Acc: 406
Boosted Att: 604

Hit rate: 94.5%
cRatio: 1.430
WS cRatio: 1.650
Delay/round: 207
fStr: 7


Default/Focus down

Destroyers///Tiphia
Turban/PCC/Brutal/Aesir
ACP(acc/att)/Usu/Rajas/Ulth
Forager/Black/Byakko/Usu

+Str: +20
+Dex: +25
+Att: +58
+Acc: +56
+Haste: +22%


Totals:
Str: 92
Dex: 96
Att: 503
Boosted Att: 579
Acc: 386

Hit rate: 84.5%
cRatio: 1.355
WS cRatio: 1.613
Delay/round: 207
fStr: 7



13.7 TP/hit (fake 7-hit)
5.5 hits per weaponskill.
1.53 hits/round
3.59 rounds/weaponskill (before acc)

WSC assumed to be 14

Asuran during Focus: (52 + 7 + 14) * 8.1 * .945 * 1.650 = 922
Asuran without Focus: (52 + 7 + 14) * 8.1 * .845 * 1.613 = 806


Taking a 5 minute sample:

2 minutes (Focus) = 7200 delay

Rounds/WS: 3.59 / .945 = 3.80
3.80 * 207 = 787
+180 for boost+weaponskill = 967

WS cycles during Focus: 7.45

Melee kicks: 7.45 * 5.5 = 40.95

Kick Avg: (78+7) * 1.430 * .88 + (78+7) * 2.430 * .12 = 131.75

Total melee damage: 131.75 * 40.95 = 5,395
Total WS damage: 922 * 7.45 = 6,869

Total damage: 12,264


3 minutes (no Focus) = 10800 delay

Rounds/WS: 3.59 / 0.845 = 4.25
4.25 * 207 = 880
+180 for boost+weaponskill = 1,060

WS cycles without Focus: 10.19

Melee kicks: 10.19 * 5.5 = 56.07

Kick Avg: (78+7) * 1.355 * .88 + (78+7) * 2.355 * .12 = 125.375

Total melee damage: 56.07 * 125.375 = 7,030
Total WS damage: 806 * 10.19 = 8,213

Total damage: 15,243


5 minute damage total: 27,507


Summary

Total damage with Destroyers: 24,876
Total damage with Wargs+Footwork: 27,507

Wargs+Footwork: 10.6% ahead of Destroyers

Note that Footwork+Wagh Baghs was marginally ahead of Destroyers when compared vs Fumas rather than Usukane feet on merit-type mobs when conditions were less favorable to Destroyers (ie: higher cRatio so crits mattered less, Footwork above attack cap so didn't need to Boost, etc). That this gives us a 10% edge over Destroyers even when comparing vs Usukane feet in an environment more favorable to Destroyers means this is a *very* strong option now.

This doesn't even get into situations like my Salvage experiments where Footwork seems to take a larger lead.

[Darkmagi]

interesting. Probably not better but looks fun. I'm curious how it compares to h2h build.

[Cream Soda]

I may pick up a pair just to fuck around w/ it a bit myself. Don't need the VNM path, as the direct DMG+ on the weapon doesn't make a difference.

[seiji]

We're talking about

Usu body + sword strap + fumas

vs.

Hauby+1 + Pole grip + usu feet.

U retard, U cant read U dont know 6hit!
nobody ever talked about usu+sword+fuma

- sword strap + usu body + feet is 1% better than haub+1 + usu feet+ pole, if you ignore tha attack, acc and str differences. If you take those into account then it is better unless your attack is really low.

-sword strap is equivalen to 1% haste reduction if you have good haste gear, marches and haste spell. therefore fumas + pole > sworsd strap + usu feet

Please fucking read. OMG.

hauby +1 + pole grip + usu feet HAS 2 LESS ACCURACY than

usubody + sword strap + usu feet.


I can read, can you? ffs.

goign to add neosutra on ignore I guess?

[mdkuser]

So, apparently, wargfang's 40% OAT proc works with footwork up. Basically wanting to see what's going to be better w/ h2h build vs footwork build and see if it changes anything for maximum gearing. For the poster's specific builds, he was able to get a 10% increase out of the footwork build.

I stoped reading when I saw the assumptions of 8 rounds untill ws with 100% acc and 2.25 attack per rounds. even with zero DA rate and zero Kick rate ( 2.0 attack /round), you have less than that: 15 hits needeed for 100 TP, so 7.5 rounds...

[Edrakali]

Maat's cap or Nocturnus helm for SAM?

[CrosisX]

For Quickdraw Damage: Corsair's Gun +1 or Murderer with earring.

[Chen]

Maat's cap or Nocturnus helm for SAM?

sir you're being vague

[Dooom]

I'm assuming he means for Y/G/K. Pretty sure Maat's will win for those (didn't someone work out that Brutal only just beats 2str earrings for GKT WS? So yeah). For Penta, I'd use the helm.

[mdkuser]

Maat's cap or Nocturnus helm for SAM?

lets take 85 WSC for gekko before hat. caped fSTR, /war, pole grip and hagun for example, caped attack and acc on gekko (even on sub hit).

you are comparing

nocturnus: A=(75+16+85+6)*(1.975*0.81+0.19*2.975) to
maat : B=(75+16+85+7)*(1.975*0.83+0.17*2.975)

A/B=1.0038 nocturnus is +0.3%

with non-hagun, for example radennotachi ( 89 base damage) or kurodachi (68 ), its is a bit better because double attacks favor non haguns: +0.5%

Now we are pretty sure that accuracy is not caped on the sub hit, nor is attack. so here is a more precise estimation of the fTP:

assume 95% WS acc on the first hit, 80% accuracy on the sub hit. maat cap as a +1 dex advantage which would be +0.75% acc, and +0.75 attack due to one more STR. Take a target with 300 def, level 82 (7 level difference), pizza ( 450 base attack w/ maat's cap), and take cRATIo instead of pDIF.

fTP for nocturnus is
fTPA=1.975*0.81*0.95*(2.2-0.05*7)+2.975*0.19*0.80*(457.25/300-0.35)
and for maat's cap:
fTPB=1.975*0.83*0.95*(2.2-0.05*7)+2.975*0.17*0.8075*(450/300-0.35)
so

A=(75+16+85+6)*fTPA
B=(75+16+85+7)*fTPB

A/B=0.992= -0.8%.... ( and -0.6% with non haguns)

so maat's cap is better. Too lazy to math it for /notWAR, or less double attacks, nocturnus gets all the better you have less DA, but it won't make it most likely.

[BrayenMidgard]

Sam tp (for both tomoe and hagun)
whats better:

noct mail or hauby +1?
[no usu body]

basically its 4str 3acc 1%TA vs 9atk

leaning towards mail since the TA might get me to 100% quicker once in a while. While 9atk i am unsure how to value it compared to such stats.

[Raen Ryong]

Nocturnus for both.