What's Better?

[Arkanna]

i just haven't been able to figure out wtf to do with the acp body. i have WAR MNK THF as my main DD jobs. all are pretty well geared (missing salvage gear but its in progress).

your thoughts?

Not really enough information there to judge. WAR gets Hauberk/Haubergeon for TP/WS, MNK gets Shura, THF gets Homam/Dragon Harness/Antares Harness. You could use the ACP body to shore up your weakest piece on those 3 jobs, or you could save it for a future job like I did.

[Raen Ryong]

Miryacat!

20% Haste from gear, 43~% magic Haste gives you a total of 63% in your current setup (unless I'm failing at addition).

Comparing 1% haste vs 50 HP;

1% Haste: 1/(100 - (63 + 1)) => 2.78% DoT/WS frequency (though we don't care about the WS frequency)

At what HP does 50 HP equal this?

50/x = 0.0278

So x = 50/0.0278 = 1798.5~

So below 1799 HP, Bloodbead Ring wins. Above or equal to 1799 HP, Blitz Ring wins for your setup above.

For /drg, Blitz Ring will only be giving you a small fraction of Haste (since it doesn't cap at 26% exactly... just slightly above 25%, if you get the distinction) meaning that unless I'm mistaken, Bloodbead should win every time with your above setup.

[ronin sparthos]

i just haven't been able to figure out wtf to do with the acp body. i have WAR MNK THF as my main DD jobs. all are pretty well geared (missing salvage gear but its in progress).

your thoughts?

Honestly id hold the key for a future job though what are you using for bodies on MNK and THF atm?

[Fingerspitz]

WS dmg/acc champion's galea or maat's cap for y/g/k? Galea or heca for raging rush?

[Dooom]

WS dmg/acc champion's galea or maat's cap for y/g/k? Galea or heca for raging rush?

Afaik, the difference between maat's and MKDE hat for y/g/k is so small - and I think it's in Maat's favor anyway, never seen anyone state otherwise - that it seems a waste of an augment. Pass on the RR part, I wouldn't know where to start with the comparison.

[Nightfyre]

Heca for RR unless you need the accuracy. By WS DMG/ACC do you mean WSDMG+2%/AGI+4/acc+10/atk+5? If so, Maat's all the way for YGK. STR/WSDMG combo is another story, see Dooom's post. Pretty sure Failure mathed it a while back but I don't recall the exact results.

[PeaceNLove]

WS dmg/acc champion's galea or maat's cap for y/g/k? Galea or heca for raging rush?

Been stated numerous times, along with math to prove it, that STR+4/WS dmg +2% outdoes Maat's cap. It was the best Y/G/K piece until Nocturnus Helm came along. That said, it also comes with +15 WS accuracy, making it an amazing piece for other weapon skills a SAM might use, like Penta Thrust or Rana.

For the second question, shit is situational, but probably Hecatomb for most targets.

[Deader2818]

Aesir Mantle or Foragers Mantle for SAM and MNK for TPing?

[Dooom]

Been stated numerous times, along with math to prove it, that STR+4/WS dmg +2% outdoes Maat's cap. It was the best Y/G/K piece until Nocturnus Helm came along. That said, it also comes with +15 WS accuracy, making it an amazing piece for other weapon skills a SAM might use, like Penta Thrust or Rana.

Not to be an ass, but could you link to the math, because I've never seen it. Ditto for Novturnus vs Maat's, 2% DA and 8 attack on Y/G/K (especially Gekko) doesn't seem an obvious upgrade over 1 str.

[Nightfyre]

Speaking in generalities, 2% DA is going to beat 1 STR for YGK unless your accuracy on the DA is floored or very, very close. If you know it'll add to your WSC then things change a bit. This is assuming the 8 attack is not a factor; if it is then Nocturnus should win even if you got a boost to both fSTR and WSC.

[mdkuser]

Speaking in generalities, 2% DA is going to beat 1 STR for YGK unless your accuracy on the DA is floored or very, very close. If you know it'll add to your WSC then things change a bit. This is assuming the 8 attack is not a factor; if it is then Nocturnus should win even if you got a boost to both fSTR and WSC.

did maths a few pages back, nocturnus is very slightly better with acc and attack caped for the double attack hit. But in practice it is most likely not the case, and maat's cap can possibly add one more fSTR;

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showt...=90339&page=40

Not to be an ass, but could you link to the math, because I've never seen it. Ditto for Novturnus vs Maat's, 2% DA and 8 attack on Y/G/K (especially Gekko) doesn't seem an obvious upgrade over 1 str.

Been stated numerous times, along with math to prove it, that STR+4/WS dmg +2% outdoes Maat's cap. It was the best Y/G/K piece until Nocturnus Helm came along. That said, it also comes with +15 WS accuracy, making it an amazing piece for other weapon skills a SAM might use, like Penta Thrust or Rana.

For the second question, shit is situational, but probably Hecatomb for most targets.

with caped stats ( STR ATT 100%ACC) and 7 level correction ( lv 82 mobs) for example:

Maat's cap's gekko: A=(75+16+85+7)*(1.975*0.83+0.17*2.975)*1.19*1.85= 864.16
Moogle hat (1.21 multiplier): B=(75+16+85+4)(1.975*0.83+0.17*2.975)*1.21*1.85= 864.28
Moogle hat (1.19*1.02 as multiplier):
C=(75+16+85+4)*(1.975*0.83+0.17*2.975)*1.19*1.02*1 .85=867


You always have B<C. We do not know for sure wether B or C is the rigth formula, but several indicies point towards C.

With the above values, A<B<C.

However if maat's cap gives you one more fSTR than moogle hat ( likely on HNMs), then B<C<A. The fact that the second hit is not attack or accuracy capped will change the numbers a bit, and favor moogle hat even more ( +15 acc).

[miokomioko]

Aesir Mantle or Foragers Mantle for SAM and MNK for TPing?

From what I have gathered, Aesir is pretty much just an 'iffy' option for 2-handers and that something like MNK will get more from the Attack+ than such a low % of Double Attack.

Next best thing to Pantin Cape for PUP! :3

[mdkuser]

Aesir Mantle or Foragers Mantle for SAM and MNK for TPing?

MONK

Instead of what you ask, I'll compare charger's mantle to aesir mantle, versus a level 82 mob ( 7 level correction) with 300 DEF. I'll assume that STR is caped, and that attack is almost caped. Attack caps at 2*300=600 here, so I'll take 550 as attack ( weapon= destroyers):



Charger's mantle: STR and attack contributon is A=(53+10)*(570/300-0.35)=97.6
Aesir mantle : STR and attack contributon is B=(53+10)*(558/300-0.35)=95.1

A/B=+2.65% melee damage. charger's is better because 1% DA is always < 1% global damage, and monk is always > 50% melee damage.

If attack is not caped or STR is not caped, it is even worse: foragers ( or cerb +1) is better than chargers, and attack has even bigger benefits.



SAM

caped attack and STR scenario, hagun, 550 base attack before mantle, 7 level correction and 300 DEF target.

Charger: A=(75+16)*(570/300-0.35)
Forager: B=(75+16)*(558/300-0.35)

A/B=+2.65% melee damage. Hagun's melee % in perfect condition is ~37%, 0.37*2.65=0.98=0.98%, still better than 1% DA, whatever your SJ is. If you arent in perfect conditions, say 30% melee dmg due to afk, then it is slightly better, but you need very high base attack for that ( Polearm zergs). On HNMs ( say 450 DEF and 15 level cor), you get about 15% melee damage only, so aesir will be better ( but you might wanna use a cuchu instead there). also realistically, you're never going to be STR caped with hagun or PA on anything decent during melee phase ( need to be 60 STR above target's VIT).


I can stop maths here, the conclusion is going to be the same, aesir is better only for close to cap attack, or HNMs.

[Deader2818]

Ok, figured as much, saw someone say something about it being better but didnt really believe it.

[Fingerspitz]

Thanks for the hat help, Dooom et al.

[Martinius]

sam penta thrust question:

on colibri and city dynamis, no polearm merits, no cuchulain's mantle (i know 240 skill, crab sushi and cuchulain's mantle caps acc on birds), what's better for penta thrust, usukane gote, okote, or (and i doubt it's best, but i'll include it anyway) alky's?

i'll have usu feet as soon as LAC stops being a bitch, and until i get MKD done, i've been using usu head (tho ohat or shura head are both an option) for ws.

[Darkmagi]

Okote. If acc is still uncapped for some reason make other trade offs.

[Raenil]

Love Halberd or High Damage Bradamante for Dragoon?

Bumping because it seemed to have been lost in the Scythe discussion.

[Neosutra]

The answer is the new OAT polearm by a wide margin. Really people, the t2-3 vnm items aren't that hard to get >.>.

[Genrye]

Bumping because it seemed to have been lost in the Scythe discussion.

The OAT polearm is pretty amazing.