Drop XXI: The HNM Auction House

[Neoex]

Rotating because you need to != doing things as efficiently as possible.

wow your slow.. I am not even going to explain why keeping a bard in a particular party is better than having them constantly singing 6 songs.. youll get it one day, I hope. At this point I think I am being whooshed by someone who just likes to argue, so I'm going to bow out of this convo. Cheers.

[Genrye]

wow your slow.. I am not even going to explain why keeping a bard in a particular party is better than having them constantly singing 6 songs.. youll get it one day, I hope. At this point I think I am being whooshed by someone who just likes to argue, so I'm going to bow out of this convo. Cheers.

i fucking lol'd

[BerenTebogo]

Rotating because you need to != doing things as efficiently as possible.

Honestly, by your own admission, you almost even parse or outparse the relic holders in your shell with ridill/joy in ein as WAR/NIN. Every data point you've ever posted regarding your einherjar numbers as a shell has indicated that something is HORRIBLY, GOD AWFUL wrong with something in your runs.

With this new info? My guess? Some of your party leaders / bards suck ass and melees are walking around with 1 minuet 2 madrigals and march1 for 20%+ of runs (or something similar.) It's the only logical explanation for the numbers you've given previously in IRC multiple times aside from every DD in your shell just blowing total fucking ass like they get paid to (and since I do know some of them and can rule that out right now...yeah)

Rotating bards is only good if everyone involved is paying attention 100% of the run and their ability to do their jobs are not impeded in any way. The benefit from 2 minuets on top of Chaos roll and the benefit of madrigal to melee who don't suck is pffft. Melee have marches + COR already. The other shit is superfluous unless you people are in shells without useless filler players who get stuck on support roles because they can't be trusted to not fuck up important jobs (so they get stuck fucking up bard rotations!)

Oh yeah. In before you are in shells like that. You're not. Sorry.

[ZhiGaruda]

Rotating because you need to != doing things as efficiently as possible.

Unless it is absolutely necessary to rotate BRD's to win, it's probably best not to.

If, after over 200 runs, they find that not rotating is the most effective way to go about it (and with a 98~99% win rate, I think they kind of have that all charted out and such) then so be it.

BRD's constantly singing for 3 different parties / leader of party constantly having to invite people so they can't concentrate on their duties...

Or

BRD's singing for only one party, able to concentrate on timing sleeps on mobs, party leader able to fully concentrate on what he is doing. In most cases will be a healer, and in a situation like Excellence, with all melee using Hasso, this is probably best as well.

[S N K]

wow your slow.. I am not even going to explain why keeping a bard in a particular party is better than having them constantly singing 6 songs.. youll get it one day, I hope. At this point I think I am being whooshed by someone who just likes to argue, so I'm going to bow out of this convo. Cheers.

For some runs, rotating BRDs for 6 Songs on every DD is a good thing if you have the time to do it.

[FailureMidgard]

Kaitens would be low because we arent wasting songs on Minuets, everything is haste based, no one ever seems to understand this, but I can assure you the Amano SAMs on that parse are elvs with +5str merits and all the +1 goodies. Lacking nothing but maybe a black tathlum, so if yours are higher, you must press your macro harder.

but Hasso/march/march/haste/20-26% haste build is THE combination for success.

Oh well.


Im sure it looks bugged based on my filters, and if they were out of my party it didn't show what songs/buffs they were getting.


And if Total Fight Time : 0:13:58 for 37 mobs in Einherjar, including the megaboss doesn't attest to efficiency well I'm not sure what does. Most shells couldn't do that with 36 let alone 22.

Again I was on the side of fence everyone else is calling bullshit on all these numbers people from EX posted,(I watch day in and day out people say /SAM with Hasso is not feasible in Dynamis/Einherjar) and then when I joined, it was like starting FFXI all over again. I dont expect anyone to believe me, because hell I didn't believe it myself.

You're aware I was probably the first person on these forums to start arguing that double march > march minuet? Posted math, etc. Same with Turban>Aces? I'm well aware that double march is king. What I'm not quite sure of is why you only have 1 buffer in a party. But, I guess an inferior group setup like that would skew it towards a crit-based weaponskill.

Try rotating bards, or using a bard+cor setup, or both. Frankly, nothing you're saying here is impressing me, and you're missing every point I'm making. We bring a good # of relics to Ein, we clear easily (10+min remaining T3) with ~24 people. I full-time Hasso. I'm not debating DD subjobs, or anything else except the claim that an NQ warrior can beat a relic Sam. I guess I can maybe almost see it when you run an inferior and less efficient setup, like you are claiming Ex does.

Some linkshells don't need to rotate bards. We've done over 50 odins and we only rotate bards for boss zergs.

Some linkshells don't need relic DD. Some linkshells don't need to rotate bards for boss zergs. In fact, very few need anything. Some people just like doing the best they can do, get the fuck out of here, that isn't an argument to not be efficient, not here anyway.

[Cairthenn]

Why only two songs? We need six at all times during Einherjar.

Oh

[BerenTebogo]

Replace the time and energy spent swapping BRDs with putting DNC in melee pt with BRD + COR and see some real god damn improvement, fuck.

[Genrye]

ITT: Having bards swap is bad because having 6 songs is isn't as good as having someone to use cure 3.

Not rotating bards is just an excuse to be lazy.

[Eanae]

Didn't know having a dnc and cor in a pt prevented bards from rotating. You don't need madrigals? Fine. Still no reason to not have marches and minuets.

[FailureMidgard]

For the record, I think bards hopping 3 parties is bulky and unnecessary. I think the easiest thing is to aim for Bard/Cor/Whm/DDx3. If you can't swing the Cors though, I'd say you should have 2 parties with 2 bards swapping. Each bard can cover 2 melee songs + 1 ballad in each party, so both parties have fulltime marchx2, minuetx2, mage w/ balladx2. It's a lot easier to keep track of when you don't have to pay attention to an order, and it takes virtually no time or concentration to invite someone, can even use vent to coordinate it at which point it should take -no- concentration.

I really don't see how you can argue for 802 Kaiten average as an optimal or efficient way to do things when all it takes is a little more effort to have bards rotate.

Furthermore, why no dancers? For a shell claiming to be the top of efficiency, you sure are missing a lot in terms of efficiency.

[ZhiGaruda]

Didn't know having a dnc and cor in a pt prevented bards from rotating. You don't need madrigals? Fine. Still no reason to not have marches and minuets.

Again, if the LS finds it more effective to NOT rotate, and they have the track record of Excellence in Einherjar, there really is no reason to argue it. If they start failing runs by ~2 minutes, then we can say OMG MINUET WOULD'VE MADE THE DIFFERENCE YO

[BerenTebogo]

Didn't know having a dnc and cor in a pt prevented bards from rotating. You don't need madrigals? Fine. Still no reason to not have marches and minuets.

I know for a solid, undeniable fact that you don't use either with any regularity. Don't fucking make me dump logs of IRC into media because I'll chart that shit up with a quickness.

And faster erases / -nas / cures to melee who are only using hasso (because why would you have melee /nin in einherjar unless your support sucks?) are going to equal more damage over the run than 2 minuets. Sorry, lol.

[Neoex]

Unless it is absolutely necessary to rotate BRD's to win, it's probably best not to.

If, after over 200 runs, they find that not rotating is the most effective way to go about it (and with a 98~99% win rate, I think they kind of have that all charted out and such) then so be it.

BRD's constantly singing for 3 different parties / leader of party constantly having to invite people so they can't concentrate on their duties...

Or

BRD's singing for only one party, able to concentrate on timing sleeps on mobs, party leader able to fully concentrate on what he is doing. In most cases will be a healer, with all melee using Hasso, this is probably best as well.

well Enaee this guy definitely gets it. so theres your answer

[Genrye]

I know for a solid, undeniable fact that you don't use either with any regularity. Don't fucking make me dump logs of IRC into media because I'll chart that shit up with a quickness.

And faster erases / -nas / cures to melee who are only using hasso (because why would you have melee /nin in einherjar unless your support sucks?) are going to equal more damage over the run than 2 minuets. Sorry, lol.

If you need a bard to take care of your melees, your whitemage is a piece of shit.

[FailureMidgard]

Didn't know having a dnc and cor in a pt prevented bards from rotating. You don't need madrigals? Fine. Still no reason to not have marches and minuets.

Assuming a mage is paying enough attention to dia every mob, Chaos Roll and proper gear should cap, if not come damn close to capping attack on non-boss mobs in Einherjar. I guess with a bard swap, the corsair could maybe run fighter/samurai though.

A dancer is separate, but huge if the dancer is good. I still don't see how one can claim such efficiency and not run with any dancers or corsairs, however.

[Eanae]

We do not use cor's and we have no dnc, so no, we in fact do not use either.

[FailureMidgard]

And faster cures to melee who are only using hasso ...

Fixed. If your white mage isn't abusing the fuck out of Esuna, they suck. Only shit a bard should be -naing is paralyze off ice spikes. No wait, someone should be dispelling that.

[Robian]

Furthermore, why no dancers? For a shell claiming to be the top of efficiency, you sure are missing a lot in terms of efficiency.

I think his arguement is more of the fact that they've lost 1 einherjar in the past 200. That's a lot better record than the most of the linkshells on this board that rotate bards or whatever the fuck you claim is the most efficient. It doesn't matter what you do if you can't win.

[BerenTebogo]

If you need a bard to take care of your melees, your whitemage is a piece of shit.

Quick! Everyone! To advanced! Apparently every WHM in every LS can INSTANTLY cast blindna and paralyna on EVERY melee in their party without any downtime, recast, or targeting / typing time whatsoever.

Dude, you're making Eanae look fucking rational in this thread. Go shove your arm up your ass, find your brain, rip it out and throw it against the fucking wall.