Relic Augments

[Asmoranomar]

Did anyone even make level 90 Aegis or Horn yet? Figuring since DD weapons got the WS damage increase, wouldn't be a shocker if these two also got something ninja buffed or added. Also Fudo doesn't destroy a level 90 Kaiten by much from my experience.

Maybe if you did the desired dynamis exactly after 72 hours and rode your linkshell to do events during the holiday schedule. Killing the desired mobs isn't the difficulty, it's the 72hr entrance restriction.

We do dynamis twice a week, and took 4 'rotations' off due to new content & holidays. I have been fortunate to have linkshell mates who are willing to spam dynamis zones. ATM I believe our LS is the furthest on the horn trial, and I'd only be 1/5 on the trial if I would have received credit (This isn't a brag, I really want to know if anyone is running into the same problems).

I don't want to spread rumors, but my first beau run didn't net me credit ~ so if there's an issue with the horn trial, that would be another issue.

Give it another week or two and maybe someone will have an upgraded horn/shield.

[Neisan]

Last I checked Mercy Stroke was worse than other WSes at 75 if not force-crit also, or is that wrong? I was under the impression that unstacked, DE was better than Mercy, but Mercy destroyed it when stacked. In other words, SA/TA have always been what "fixed" Mandau, and we're now coming full circle back to where we started.

That being said, what jobs even used their relic WS @ 75? Thf, Sam, Drk? Maybe a few others did situationally (Rng, War), but not regularly for the highest damage output. I guess you can say it's because said jobs don't have a crit WS...but really it just happens to be the same ones that were usable at 75 also.

As a side note, I'm a bit unsure why people think a crit WS is such a huge deal. Gekko averages higher than Ascetics or Jin from my experiences (esp @ 90), and the WS rate is significantly higher (though obviously less white damage). I'm even more boggled by people that think Ukon outdamages Masamune outside of Abyssea, doesn't even seem remotely close to me (With Masamune being far far ahead), but /shrug.

The problem with how they are fixing relics though goes back to WSes being usable at 75. As a Sam, I feel if they continue to buff Kaiten, it -will- fix Amano, but I don't see WTF that's gonna do for relic Drgs, Wars, Rngs, etc.

I don't see how Ukon is so far behind Masamune outside abyssea when both can 5 hit outside abyssea now maintaining close to capped haste, Blood Rage can be kept up 20% of the time with Lorica's+2, both have Str+15, both have ODD procs, both have Hasso, assuming both have same outside buffs of haste+marchx2 etc, and even outside abyssea Ukko's is still very damaging, am I missing something about Masamune that's making it vastly outdamage Ukonvasara?

[Malacite]

Atonement got a 15% damage boost. Yagrush lost its Divine Benison bonus entirely.

Ryunohige is the most attractive DD-Mythic by a loooong shot, and probably DRG's best weapon in my opinion.

WTF why? I remember there was a post about an error with it previously, but did they literally remove that clause from the item?

[FailureMidgard]

I don't see how Ukon is so far behind Masamune outside abyssea when both can 5 hit outside abyssea now maintaining close to capped haste, Blood Rage can be kept up 20% of the time with Lorica's+2, both have Str+15, both have ODD procs, both have Hasso, assuming both have same outside buffs of haste+marchx2 etc, and even outside abyssea Ukko's is still very damaging, am I missing something about Masamune that's making it vastly outdamage Ukonvasara?

Well, admittedly I don't have some huge sample size, but Ukko's from my experience is averaging a good 200-500 points lower in most Ein parses. Also, presumably the Sam is not getting overwhelm 100% of the time, which one can argue is how it is in Ein, but should see a damage increase in a "tanked" fight, or with less DDs, whereas the warrior will not. This was also all without the WotG earring which is a ~5% increase to Fudo's damage (another 100+ per WS).

Anyway, putting that aside, warrior has 5% DA over Sam, Sam has 1.5% haste over warrior when Hasso'd w/out 2hr songs. 5% DA is a ~4.3% increase to WS rate (and is presumably accounted for in the WS averages already). 1.5% haste at 73.5% (25gear, 13.5 victory, 15haste, 10 advancing, 10 hasso) is a 6% increase. If you actually have a party with a cor/dnc, or any other /dnc, it's going from 78.5 to 80% haste, and will be a larger increase (7.5%). So actually, if the enhances Hasso is applying, it's a larger increase than full DA merits for warrior.

Continuing on, while both have a 5hit, that's quite misleading, as Sam's 5hit is at 437 delay, and War is at 482. This puts a Sam WSing 10.3% more often, and is ignoring meditate, which is at a minimum, 1 extra WS per 2.5minutes...with human reaction/etc/etc, assuming one WSes once per 10 seconds, that's still a 6-7% increase in WS rate over the warrior. All this added up means the Samurai is WSing roughly 20% more often, and hitting anywhere from 10-20% harder per WS. The warrior's answer to this is 15 base damage. Past this, the warrior's damage is not consistent to say the least (though admittedly, this could mean a real average is higher than what I've seen) because it is a crit WS outside of Abyssea. Also, a lot of my numbers were pre-Bloodrage too fwiw, but Bloodrage seems to be a 9% increase in average WS damage outside Abyssea at best, which won't really close the gap that much.

[Fievel]

WTF why? I remember there was a post about an error with it previously, but did they literally remove that clause from the item?

They seem to be fucking up a lot with that shit, like how Counter III seemed to do nothing. With Divine Benison the effect of it is literally just gone. It still says on the item that you get it, but you don't.

[Lovex]

I dont want to start this again...but "a bit easier to get"? The gimpyiest gimps of the gimps have empyran weapons.

I was trying to be nice, but if you prefer the bitch side.. Then Okay. Yeah, it's not cute.

Not cute at all...Though, it's also kinda cool in a funny way. I mean, even gimps deserve a chance at a cool weapon!

Besides, some people are gimp because they don't have time to invest in the game like others do. I can respect that.

Also, some people don't care enough, and just wanna fuck around. Even those people shouldnt be excluded from seeking out an ultimate weapon.

The game isn't serious or groundbreaking anymore. There is nothing much exclusive about endgame.

Tho I was in abys with what possibly was the gimpest masamune samurai in existance. At least He was nice!

[Mercilessturtle]

Also, presumably the Sam is not getting overwhelm 100% of the time, which one can argue is how it is in Ein, but should see a damage increase in a "tanked" fight, or with less DDs, whereas the warrior will not.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Retaliation

Anyway, putting that aside, warrior has 5% DA over Sam, Sam has 1.5% haste over warrior when Hasso'd w/out 2hr songs.

How about if we use the real numbers instead of made up ones? War has 10% DA over sam, +15% crit damage during TP, and is only 1% haste behind from the enhances hasso pants on sam.

Continuing on, while both have a 5hit, that's quite misleading, as Sam's 5hit is at 437 delay, and War is at 482. This puts a Sam WSing 10.3% more often

No it doesn't. Assuming no dnc, it puts sam at 11.5% more WS frequency including the bonus 1% haste. With a dnc it is only 7.7% more WS.

The warrior's answer to this is 15 base damage.

Or 14% more damage. Helps if you put them all in terms of percentage increase.

[Nightfyre]

15 base damage is not 14% more damage during WS. I don't even think it's 14% during TP... Did you include fSTR?

[Mercilessturtle]

Oops, yeah that was during TP, but yes including fstr (13.5% really). Also forgot that war gets berserk up more of the time, and probably a few other things.

[Ayn]

Finished the level 90 Apoc today, felt like posting a SS would be too pretentious or whatever.

I'm happy with the WS damage boost.

[boo]

Test results and SS go go go!

[FailureMidgard]

How about if we use the real numbers instead of made up ones? War has 10% DA over sam, +15% crit damage during TP, and is only 1% haste behind from the enhances hasso pants on sam.

+15% crit damage during TP with a 24% critrate (seems unlikely since you've dropped tons of dex on gear to make your 5hit+DA build) on a standardish 5hit is some 1.5% increase in total damage (with a more likely critrate of 9-12%, you're looking at half of that). Excuse me for neglecting to mention it. I also left off Enhanced Sekkanoki, Skillchain Bonus, Enhanced Zanshin, and added STR from Hasso. Also, where did 10% DA rate come from? I just checked wiki and see some DA2 trait apparently, with 0 numbers and "needs confirmation". Admittedly I've been away from the game the past 1-2 weeks for the most part, but I've never heard anything about it...or are you referring to Ravagers Legs? If so, are we pretending Juogi doesn't exist? Or pretending you can't 5hit with it?
Also, if you want to nitpick my haste numbers, it's 1.2%, you could at the very least be accurate with it. Furthermore, I have no idea why anyone would bring a dancer to anything anymore. It's a subjob or a solo job, and unless you feel a dnc main (outside of Abyssea since that's what was being discussed) will outdmg XDD/dnc, I don't know why you'd even consider it. Then again, I still have no idea where you're getting your DA rate from, which is apparently where you are getting your WS rate from. I'm happy to know you completely ignored the increase from meditate (6% increase in WS rate on it's own) while attempting to compare these though, and decided that 15 base damage is a 14% increase in pure damage.

Really, as far as I can tell, you pulled numbers out of your ass while trying to tell me that's what I was doing. I admit my math wasn't exact, and I don't actually care enough to try to model it exactly, but you're fucking trying to bring up increased berserk time. You realize that's going from 60% uptime to 72% uptime, or averaged out, a 3% increase in attack. Don't get me wrong, increased damage is increased damage, but you can't seriously be bringing up your 3% attack while bitching at my estimated numbers and shorting a Sam out of .2% haste and 2 STR, which together easily add up to more than your berserk merits. There's a lot of small shit, I ignored it on both sides (and only looked at the larger differences) whereas you just ignored all of the Sams small benefits, and try to harp on the warriors.

In the end, I may have overexaggerated it by saying it was a really big difference, but Fudo Sam is still ahead of an Ukon warrior outside of Abyssea. And I'm still curious at your DA numbers.

[NynJa]

Double paragraphed bullshit

Not in the mood to divulge, but I really mostly meant that its fucking EASY now. In two sessions (5 1/2hr & 4 hr) 3boxing Konschtat, I've acquired 31/50 Fistule Discharges. I spent about an hour of the first session learning Guimauve's PH's (I know Bloodguzzler works, but ppl farm it at 150k per earring, so I need em both available) and learning how Fistule works, like how it fucking deaggros and then you lose claim, but thats part of the learning process and therefor counts against my active time. I also havent gotten a fucking refresh pin yet either...fuck

BUT...fact remains, Empyrans are not "a bit easier" than relics/mythics, theyre a LOT LOT LOT easier.

Also, where did 10% DA rate come from?

His sam subs nin

[Andradi]

Can warrior cap haste wearing the AF3 mask? Including merits and AF3 stuff it's up to 17% WAR exclusive Double attack gear/merits.

[FailureMidgard]

Can warrior cap haste wearing the AF3 mask? Including merits and AF3 stuff it's up to 17% WAR exclusive Double attack gear/merits.

AFAIK yes, but something has to give, and that makes a 5hit extremely hard? Then again, I'm far too lazy to go work out a perfect setup, so it's possible I'm wrong on this....I think you want to be wearing Goading, however.

[Ayn]

Not sure how I'd go about testing; give me some parameters and I'll get to it. I just did killed a few Lolibri in Abyssea and I was certainly hitting higher numbers than before, but that's hardly a conclusive test.

Also spoilered because pic is sorta large.

Spoiler: show

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...i/lv90Apoc.png

[Neisan]

His sam subs nin

Merits+Af3+2 Legs? Ijdk. You can with higher delay GA but you need goading/Emp+2 body for Ukon since it was a comparison of relics.

Enhanced Zanshin

This was a typo, right? Zanshin is going to activate 5% of the time ideally (unless you're using blind potions?) for a low percentage chance of dealing double damage? Granted war's set bonus chance of activating probably isn't any higher but at least double attacks are more frequent, although I'm sure both that can just be thrown out for being superfluous. As for the Juogi argument you probably could 5 hit without it with Masamune but every setup I've tried to math that involves too much loss in other slots. Not even carbonara can give back 5 hit using Juogi unless you drop bullwhip for goading, losing more haste.

You're calling out merciless for bringing up 3% increase in attack when you brought up enhanced Zanshin...

[Xanthe]

Apocalypse has gone from 3 DMG to 7 DMG over Gungnir. Unlike.

I finished up my latest trials on Tuesday, but haven't had a chance to play since then to test the beefed up Geirskogul. Will report on it when I get the chance.

[Odin'sLaw]

Not sure how I'd go about testing; give me some parameters and I'll get to it. I just did killed a few Lolibri in Abyssea and I was certainly hitting higher numbers than before, but that's hardly a conclusive test.

Also spoilered because pic is sorta large.

Spoiler: show

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...i/lv90Apoc.png

Congrats didn't know you was in Sharkapus, i think i owe Wyn 500k for relic horn trial now lol >.>;

[Atomic Skull]

Finished Mandau 90 last night, and with some small playing around, it seems that it should be able to compete with Evisceration when stacked once more. Using AA/GH/RR was keeping up with Evisceration numbers - was fighting Bennu & Ouew/ethehellitsspelled so the Piercing #'s would be skewed, but was hitting 4-5k on the birds around Bennu & 2-3k on Bennu with SA - MS. I'll play around with VV/GH/RR to see how it keeps up when the STR buff is applied similar to RR DEX buff.

At least this is the START of fixing relics!

Stacked Mercy Stroke has always beaten stacked Evisceration for me even with lvl 85 Mandau.