Relic Augments

[Byrthnoth]

I'm betting his 10% DA rate came from WAR AF3+2 pants.

[Cream Soda]

Congrats didn't know you was in Sharkapus, i think i owe Wyn 500k for relic horn trial now lol >.>;

Shark's pearl is more purple. That's Thoseguys

[Ayn]

Congrats didn't know you was in Sharkapus, i think i owe Wyn 500k for relic horn trial now lol >.>;

I'm not in Sharkapus, I'm in ThoseGuys. But thanks.

What sort of tests do people want me to do / what conditions?

[Byrthnoth]

To check the damage modifier on Cata now:
Sneak Attack-Cata something in a starter zone wearing STR gear, ideally at 100TP but it shouldn't matter for Cata unless they changed that too. Repeat it until you get the same upper value three times or get tired of it. Keep track of your high and your low value.

To check if that damage modifier is applied as fTP:
Repeat the test above with an appropriate Gorget and Belt on. I'm betting it's just "Hidden Effect: Catastrophe damage+25%" though, because iirc they didn't add new WSs named the same thing in the last update.

Report your High/Low values here, along with all relevant stats (STR, Cata mods).

[Odin'sLaw]

Shark's pearl is more purple. That's Thoseguys

Explains why he's not in sharkapus then lol

[Byrthnoth]

Maybe I'm missing something (Re: Previous page's discussion), but didn't the gimpiest gimps in the game have relics before?

Do we really have to go back and look at the NQ Haub, NA Amemet Bravura WARs?
7-hit Gungnirs everywhere?
The Spharai Monks wearing Black Belt as their only source of Haste?
Aegis Paladins, the eternal no-macro offenders?

As long as there's a "best weapon" that's so obvious that even stupid people can recognize it, there will be stupid people that get it.

[Odin'sLaw]

Maybe I'm missing something (Re: Previous page's discussion), but didn't the gimpiest gimps in the game have relics before?

Do we really have to go back and look at the NQ Haub, NA Amemet Bravura WARs?
7-hit Gungnirs everywhere?
The Spharai Monks wearing Black Belt as their only source of Haste?
Aegis Paladins, the eternal no-macro offenders?

As long as there's a "best weapon" that's so obvious that even stupid people can recognize it, there will be stupid people that get it.

i have to say its pretty hard for most people with lv 85 empthay weapons to not have at least +2

Bukhis's is Axe Bow Club Stone's upgrade war boots +2 cards upgrade bst and rng's
Cirein-croin is Great Sword Great Katana and Gun Jewels upgrade SAM
Sobek is Sword and Katana and stone's upgrade nin+2 legs
Itzpapalotl is Great Axe and Dagger WAR THF DNC and BRD can get head+2 (card is for dnc so slightly longer process)
Ulhuadshi is Scythe Hand to hand and Polearm Coins will give drk +2 head monk can get +2 from Jewels but drg will need cards
Sobek is Staff Coins give sch +2 feet

and yes i'm aware most people on BG will have so much +2 there ears are bleeding but this is a quick and simple run down of jobs that will get +2 by just doing there weapons

[FailureMidgard]

This was a typo, right? Zanshin is going to activate 5% of the time ideally (unless you're using blind potions?) for a low percentage chance of dealing double damage? Granted war's set bonus chance of activating probably isn't any higher but at least double attacks are more frequent, although I'm sure both that can just be thrown out for being superfluous.

No, it was me doing the same thing as him and overstating the addition of minor bullshit.

As for the Juogi argument you probably could 5 hit without it with Masamune but every setup I've tried to math that involves too much loss in other slots. Not even carbonara can give back 5 hit using Juogi unless you drop bullwhip for goading, losing more haste.

I don't see how this is possible considering I had a 5hit with Usukane body+Bullwhip, and Carbonara has the same STP as Usu body. Furthermore, if he's gonna bring retaliation into the argument, you may as well assume you're gonna get hit once (for both characters). Regardless of all this, the simplest way to put it is Sam has more leeway than War does with StoreTP gear for a 5hit atm. I'm not sure what the best 5hit even is atm (between allowing a build with 0 storeTP in WS gear, or trying to pick up better stats in TP gear), but Sam has a -lot- of leeway in their builds, whereas as far as I can tell, warrior has little to none. No matter how you do it, Sam can definitely fit in some DA gear (back for sure, body if they want to make more sacrifices), and as I'm seeing it, Warrior can't really. In the end though, I think it's rather silly to try to use 1 piece of gear as a claim for a DA difference that makes me "using made up numbers".

You're calling out merciless for bringing up 3% increase in attack when you brought up enhanced Zanshin...

No, I called him out for bringing up minor bullshit that is a less than 1% increase in damage done for Warrior while ignoring minor bullshit for Samurai. It's an exaggeration, a hyperbole, just there to make a point and essentially poke fun at someone for bringing up small shit - but let's face it, Samurai does have more damage from Zanshin, and if we wanted to go for pure damage, we could even merit Zanshin procrate - not that any of us will drop Blade Bash merits for it, but we're leaving utility shit like Blade Bash out of the equation (for some reason we're also assuming that the warrior's Blood Rage doesn't hit the Sam it seems). Again, the .2% haste and 2 STR increase from Hasso that he is ignoring is a bigger increase in damage than berserk merits.

[Neisan]

It's going to come down to minor bs at the end no matter how you look at it since just like with Mnk considering damage from counter like abilities is difficult and is going to swing total damage one way or another. I had forgotten to add back white tath in addition to Carbonara so it's back down to 5% DA.

[Mercilessturtle]

Also, where did 10% DA rate come from? I just checked wiki and see some DA2 trait apparently, with 0 numbers and "needs confirmation". Admittedly I've been away from the game the past 1-2 weeks for the most part, but I've never heard anything about it...or are you referring to Ravagers Legs? If so, are we pretending Juogi doesn't exist? Or pretending you can't 5hit with it?

Yes pants. Assuming not pretending, how about you show us your perfect sam build if it uses juogi+1? The war one is obvious at least.

Also, if you want to nitpick my haste numbers, it's 1.2%, you could at the very least be accurate with it.

Based on what? It gives an extra 1% to hasso, it'll be off by a tiny bit because its x/1024, but not .2% off.

Furthermore, I have no idea why anyone would bring a dancer to anything anymore.

To heal. Might as well have your healer cap your haste instead of just giving you 5%. You don't need the dnc, it was just mentioned because the difference in WS frequency depends on how much haste you have.

which is apparently where you are getting your WS rate from.

No, double attack was not considered at all, only delay/haste difference. I was just correcting your statement, you can't just divide delay1 by delay2, you have to add JA delay from WSing.

shorting a Sam out of .2% haste and 2 STR, which together easily add up to more than your berserk merits.

I'd still like to know where this .2% haste is coming from. 1 str is not beating berserk merits (war/sam has +1 base str over sam/war).

Furthermore, if he's gonna bring retaliation into the argument, you may as well assume you're gonna get hit once

No, you pretended that sam benefits from being the only DD and war doesn't. I simply pointed out that in that situation, war gains retaliations, which increases WS damage (by increasing WS frequency) more than overwhelm does.

In the end though, I think it's rather silly to try to use 1 piece of gear as a claim for a DA difference that makes me "using made up numbers".

That was more in reference to your magical .5% haste that has now become a magical .2% haste that remains unexplained.

(for some reason we're also assuming that the warrior's Blood Rage doesn't hit the Sam it seems)

Because you wanted to compare the jobs individually. It wouldn't be fair to add up all the damage every DD gains from the war buffing them and adding that to the war's damage.

[FailureMidgard]

Yes pants. Assuming not pretending, how about you show us your perfect sam build if it uses juogi+1? The war one is obvious at least.

Do the 3% DA mantle then, that one is a total joke to get in (and can be done without Carbonara even...). Really, when we're down to nitpicking over this shit to even give war a chance, it seems quite obvious Sam is ahead. Then again, Sam is ahead even with your 10% DA difference, which is most definitely off. The fact is I hardly play the game anymore, and don't care enough to figure out a perfect set for both jobs.

Based on what? It gives an extra 1% to hasso, it'll be off by a tiny bit because its x/1024, but not .2% off.

And here I thought you were being exact
+1s add 15/1024 to Hasso, +2s add 25/1024. The 12 comes from a warrior running a true 256/1024, and the sam is at 24% on gear (26.5 w/ Hasso), but the 24% is actually like 23.7%, which makes the total haste 26.2 instead of 26.5. Trust me, it's not magical, and originally I didn't add up the 40/1024, 71/1024, etc, I just did 24% on gear, 2.5% from Hasso w/ +2 pants, which *gasp* is 26.5, or 1.5 more than haste cap. When you get into rounding and exacts, its 12/1024.

To heal. Might as well have your healer cap your haste instead of just giving you 5%. You don't need the dnc, it was just mentioned because the difference in WS frequency depends on how much haste you have.

I'm all for Hasso tanking (outside Abyssea too I guess), really, I am...but I think you're getting a bit ridiculous here. Since you're presumably single tanking an ?NM?, may I ask which NM you are Hasso tanking with a bard + dnc as your support? I mean, the game is a joke, but I'm honestly curious if that's possible outside Abyssea, since the dnc needs to heal himself from AoE damage, is feeding a lot more TP, you just lost slow/para...and yes, I'm glad you are so able to point out that when we hit the haste cap, bonus haste is useless. You are such a genius, how could I ever have missed this. I'm glad we're assuming this, and assuming we don't have a corsair, and we aren't attack capped though. It's pure genius, really.

I'd still like to know where this .2% haste is coming from. 1 str is not beating berserk merits (war/sam has +1 base str over sam/war).

Berserk merits add close to nothing, you're vastly overestimating them, an they also only even add something in a fight length that supports them being useful. If you have a fight thats <4minutes, they do nothing. If the fight is between 8min and 8.5min, they do essentially nothing as well. The fact of the matter is, 3% is the maximum average attack added for a specific fight length, with 0% average attack added being the minimum. If you want to do a distribution while taking fight length into account, you're looking at something near the middle that I'm really not going to calculate. Once fight length is considered (instead of an arbitrary infinite amount of time), you're looking at closer to 1.5% average increase in attack. Really, 2 strength permanently is a larger net gain than that. .2 haste easily beats out 1 str, so .2 haste and 1 str beats out your berserk merits, still, unless you're looking at a specific fight length that benefits warrior over samurai, which seems like an unfair way to go about comparing it, but again, if you do put this in favor of warrior, samurai will still end up on top.

No, you pretended that sam benefits from being the only DD and war doesn't. I simply pointed out that in that situation, war gains retaliations, which increases WS damage (by increasing WS frequency) more than overwhelm does.

Solo, it may. Duo (which I believe I also mentioned), it won't. Trio (which is still pretty easy to get overwhelm reliably), especially if we're gonna talk about an NM, the Samurai gets full Overwhelm benefit and the warrior is getting less and less from Retal (and quite possibly nothing for the first X seconds of a fight before they hate cap and catch up). Really, I mentioned the overwhelm thing in passing. Fudo already outparses Ukko's easily when RR is removed from the picture from everything I've seen, and the earring is another ~120 pt gain per WS, which is not insignificant.

That was more in reference to your magical .5% haste that has now become a magical .2% haste that remains unexplained.

It's not magical because you have no idea what the bonus provides. Really. By no means do I expect everyone to know, but if you're gonna try to call me out on it, yea, you should have a fucking clue.

Because you wanted to compare the jobs individually. It wouldn't be fair to add up all the damage every DD gains from the war buffing them and adding that to the war's damage.

Eh, I didn't say I wanted to compare them individually. I obviously included a bard, you decided to add one of the worst jobs in the game currently to that (really, there's no place for a dnc anymore...and I was a huge supporter of them before), it's not worth it over a DD/dnc. But no, I never said to compare individually, I made 1 passing comment about overwhelm increasing ws #s even more when not in an Ein situation, such as solo/duo or on an NM.

It's going to come down to minor bs at the end no matter how you look at it since just like with Mnk considering damage from counter like abilities is difficult and is going to swing total damage one way or another. I had forgotten to add back white tath in addition to Carbonara so it's back down to 5% DA.

That's the thing, it won't. Fudo sam will be a solid bit ahead of Ukko's war (~10%ish?) before you look into dumb minor bullshit like 1% increased attack, .2% increased haste, 1 extra STR, etc, and none of that is going to make a noticeable change. And counter/retal damage is overplayed unless you're a solo DD (even in Ein when we had FFA, no assist, etc, mnks still weren't getting a noteworthy amount of damage from counter, at all.)

[Mercilessturtle]

Really, when we're down to nitpicking over this shit to even give war a chance, it seems quite obvious Sam is ahead.

We aren't, again I was just pointing out the obvious. Sam is only ahead in your imagination. You are just claiming sam is the best, based on nothing, and then giving silly examples of sam's minor advantages while ignoring their disadvantages. Anyone can do that, look: "bst is the best DD, they get a pet and sam doesn't". You were discussing minor shit, so of course the conversation is about minor shit.

I'm all for Hasso tanking (outside Abyssea too I guess), really, I am...but I think you're getting a bit ridiculous here. Since you're presumably single tanking an ?NM?, may I ask which NM you are Hasso tanking with a bard + dnc as your support?

These are your scenarios, I don't know why you are asking me about them. Original case was ein/dyna. Then you said if it were just a single DD, sam would gain more because of overwhelm. I only pointed out that they actually gain less, because war gets retaliation. This has nothing at all to do with dancers, simply the fact that as sole DD war gains more than sam does, not the reverse.

Fudo already outparses Ukko's easily when RR is removed from the picture from everything I've seen, and the earring is another ~120 pt gain per WS, which is not insignificant.

I think you are the only one seeing that though.

(really, there's no place for a dnc anymore...and I was a huge supporter of them before), it's not worth it over a DD/dnc.

Only when you need a whm for status removal anyways, otherwise bring a dnc to main heal. This doesn't even matter though, just because war is further ahead with a dnc doesn't mean sam is ahead without one, or that dnc is suddenly useless because it doesn't suit the purpose of "make sam look better".

That's the thing, it won't. Fudo sam will be a solid bit ahead of Ukko's war (~10%ish?) before you look into dumb minor bullshit

So, ~10% more WS damage vs ~15% more tp damage puts sam 10% ahead overall? Because those are the only two factors that aren't minor bullshit.

[FailureMidgard]

So, ~10% more WS damage vs ~15% more tp damage puts sam 10% ahead overall? Because those are the only two factors that aren't minor bullshit.

15% more TP damage? You meaning hitting 15% harder, but still swinging slower? Or are you going to conveniently ignore that because it doesn't suit your argument?

The major differences:

Sam swings 10% (capped haste 'cause we brought a dnc for no reason at all) or 16% (oh, we forgot our dnc) faster.
Warrior hits 15% harder on auto swings.
Warrior has 5-7% more DA. Not 10 for sure.
Sam WSes some 15%+ more often (10.3% delay, 5-6% haste in most realistic situations, 6.x% true meditate, subtract whatever the fuck you want for DA and JA delay, it's not more than 7%).
Sam's WSes hit 10-15% harder (Again, I admitted my sample size was small for Ukko's, but I'm sorry, your claims have absolutely no basis in anything, whereas mine have a small sample size...Ukko's at 85 in multiple Ein parses was averaging in the 2k-2100 range, Fudo averaging in the 2300-2400 range without the earring that gives +5% WS dmg, and this was including MS'd WSes on the boss). Again, this was all at 85, who does Ein anymore anyway. I'm curious what parses of Ein you have with Ukko's though, or are you really just trying to troll me here by trying to call me wrong?

The rest of your post hardly seems worth responding to. You drop every point you're losing, pick out 1 sentence, attempt to refute it but don't even have a single point of data to back it up. Have you even done an event outside of Abyssea with Fudo and Ukko's and parsed it to compare WS averages?

Yes, there's minor shit like an average of 1.5% increased attack for warrior. WOOHOO. There's 1 STR on Sam's side it seems, which is equal to something like .8% attack based on your numbers earlier, and that's even assuming that berserk does anything, which we're all taking for granted it does.

As a completely separate note, you're on crack with dancers. This was debatable at 75, but irrelevant because they brought more to the table that main healing. Now they are certainly able to main heal, but feed the mob TP, make you lose out on debuffs, and provide very little as far as enhanced damage goes. In a group situation (btw, I never said specifically to look at solo, I made a FUCKING PASSING COMMENT that Sam WS dmg would go up further if overwhelm were 100%, I'm really sorry I even mentioned it, it was not a central point to my debate, and you're right, a warrior gains more solo, but the fact of the matter is, overwhelm damage will go up duo, trio, even with 4 DDs vs having fucking 9) the haste is entirely wasted from haste samba, and you should just have your cor or brd come /dnc.

[Mercilessturtle]

Sam gets 11.5% more WS with no dnc not including med, just delay and bonus haste, not 16%. Med and double attack you can call even if you want. Fudo and ukko are about even for per WS damage, pretending fudo is 15% ahead is absurd. I know everyone pretending sam sucks shit now can be annoying, but going the other way and pretending they are 10% ahead of any other DD is just as bad. Sam is certainly one of the top DDs outside of abyssea, and contrary to popular opinion, still a solid DD inside abyssea. But they aren't 10% ahead of any other DD.

[FailureMidgard]

Sam gets 11.5% more WS with no dnc not including med, just delay and bonus haste, not 16%. Med and double attack you can call even if you want. Fudo and ukko are about even for per WS damage, pretending fudo is 15% ahead is absurd. I know everyone pretending sam sucks shit now can be annoying, but going the other way and pretending they are 10% ahead of any other DD is just as bad. Sam is certainly one of the top DDs outside of abyssea, and contrary to popular opinion, still a solid DD inside abyssea. But they aren't 10% ahead of any other DD.

Again, do you have a single parse to support your numbers for Ukko's outside of Abyssea? Adding some other Empyreans for fun...only the first 2 lines were parsed together necessarily, as people went different jobs different times/etc (I think I was only on Sam for one of these, bard once, rdm once, nin once).

These were also all at 85.

 - Ukko's Fury              43314   100.00 %      20/0   100.00 %    824/3577  2165.70
 - Tachi: Fudo              69163   100.00 %      29/1    96.67 %   1307/3707  2384.93
 - Victory Smite            27148    99.81 %      15/0   100.00 %   1191/2582  1809.87
 - Victory Smite            14665   100.00 %       9/0   100.00 %    925/2076  1629.44
 - Blade: Hi                24371   100.00 %      15/0   100.00 %    419/2424  1624.73
 - Tachi: Fudo              44967   100.00 %      19/0   100.00 %   1561/3575  2366.68
 - Ukko's Fury              27717   100.00 %      12/0   100.00 %    979/3106  2309.75 [this had warding circle up vs demons]
 - Tachi: Fudo              38277   100.00 %      19/0   100.00 %    855/3377  2014.58 [this had skeletons]
 - Ukko's Fury              37751   100.00 %      17/0   100.00 %   1371/3093  2220.65
 - Victory Smite            22819   100.00 %      12/0   100.00 %   1734/2317  1901.58
 - Ukko's Fury               8076   100.00 %      12/0   100.00 %    230/1296   673.00 [slimes, lol]
 - Raging Rush              10372    79.73 %      17/0   100.00 %    356/1235   610.12 [my non ukkos on slimes...]
 - Victory Smite            16886   100.00 %      24/0   100.00 %    275/1949   703.58 [slimes also]
 - Ukko's Fury              21298   100.00 %      13/0   100.00 %   1037/2374  1638.31 [no idea what this is, but ...]
 - Tachi: Gekko             20920   100.00 %      18/1    94.74 %    728/2309  1162.22 [this is from same parse as above ukko's average, so seems like slashing neutral, prob just bad luck w/ crits...funny Fudo doesn't have that problem]
 - Tachi: Fudo              47320   100.00 %      21/1    95.45 %   1218/3582  2253.33

K, I'm bored of pasting this stuff. There's more, but this is enough for now. Ukko's never once outdamaged Fudo's average, and had other spikes that went pretty low presumably to poor luck on crits. Buffs were generally the same, afaik the warrior 2hred every single time, and Sams rarely if ever did (it's not even worth the effort at 80% haste really, better to save it for whatever you're doing after Ein). None of these Fudos had the earring for +5% WS dmg, overwhelm was in no way guaranteed. Admittedly, I didn't list every aspect of the fights that was family dependent, but again, I listed the big things (attack downs were generally erased, though not instantly, etc). I included stuff like slimes just because it still gives some relative information. It lost to Victory Smite, which has a larger penalty vs slimes than slashing does, and almost always had a lower average than either Ukko's or Fudo. Again, I'd call it lack of crits.

Fudo was always 2200-2400 average, except vs skeletons (no Fudos were present on slimes). Ukko's ranged from 1500-2200 basically, with 1 spike over that in a short run where 8/12 of his WSes were vs demons with warding circle up. Again, I don't have a huge sample size, it's hard to draw an exact number, but WS sets were solid (if anything, some of the Fudo parses were another Sam who was lacking, the War had a proper setup afaik) and engage speed/etc is irrelevant because I'm not even discussing overall damage done here (though even you seem willing to admit that Sam has the damage there if it is assumed WS damage is higher).

Anyway, I'm not pretending, or making anything up. It's based on parses I've seen, watching Ukko's be inconsistent and at best STILL fall short of Fudo. I'm not one to sit here and say parses are end-all be-all, esp when engage speed/etc isn't factored in, but for an actual WS average, they seem like a pretty decent tool to use. Also, I'm not sure where you got your 11.5% increased WS rate, it's definitely higher than that, unless you just decided to cut marches/haste out also.

[Scrooge]

who does Ein anymore anyway.

I just spent the past 20 minutes having my brain addled skimming through this multi-page argument until that comment woke me up.

I'm not trying to troll, or instigate, or whatever else, I'm just seriously curious:

What exactly are people doing outside of Abyssea that it even warrants a "what melee sucks least outside Abyssea" discussion? Old content is outdated and the last NM they added outside Abyssea was like... Dawon half a year ago? Doesn't seem to me like this is relevant to a damn thing. beyond wanting to keep placing SAM on a pedestal.

[FailureMidgard]

I just spent the past 20 minutes having my brain addled skimming through this multi-page argument until that comment woke me up.

I'm not trying to troll, or instigate, or whatever else, I'm just seriously curious:

What exactly are people doing outside of Abyssea that it even warrants a "what melee sucks least outside Abyssea" discussion? Old content is outdated and the last NM they added outside Abyssea was like... Dawon half a year ago? Doesn't seem to me like this is relevant to a damn thing. beyond wanting to keep placing SAM on a pedestal.

Do you really think 90>99 is going to be inside Abyssea? In the end, I'm keeping my Sam geared because a: It's the top DD outside of Abyssea. and b: I think this was the last Abyssea patch, personally, and see no more reason to min-max for inside of Abyssea.

All that being said, a Fudo Sam is still leaps and bounds better than a non-Smite mnk, or a non-Hi nin, and people vastly under-rate the damage output of even a Gekko Sam (which will still have a higher WS average than the precious RR assisted Ascetics or Jins). RR is an amazing atma, and even moreso for jobs that were already a top DD while using the same WS they would have anyway (War, Drg, Nin) or one that was close enough previously (Thf Dnc), but it's still amazing for Sam, and now with an atma that does +30% WS dmg and new-Hagun, a Gekko Sam is still a very strong DD inside Abyssea.

All that being said, and this has nothing to do with Sam, I'm cancelling my account probably if the next patch/miniexpansion/whatever they want to call it follows in the footsteps of these past few. I was already not playing before Abyssea came out, and I enjoyed Abyssea a lot for a while (and am quite glad it came out), but it's old and stale to me now. I like playing with people, it's why I play an MMO, I'm quite bored of being stuck between choosing efficiency and choosing to play alone or with 1 other person who's also multi-boxing at most. I want an event like Ein, even Dynamis, something to have a reason to play with more than 1 other person at any given time. I think Atma/Abyssites have exacerbated an already existing problem in the low-mannability of FFXI (and moreso things like MM, Merit Abyssites, etc than RR, which just sped fights up - which I actually like). Past that, I think brews are beyond dumb, and making them such a joke to come by made it even worse. I think Abyssea was awesome for it's run (maybe not Heroes so much), am glad to have taken part in it, but am more than ready for a new system. Perhaps you don't share my views at all, but most people I've bothered talking to about it agree at least as much as they don't want another Abyssea expansion, think that the Abyssea buffs are a little over the top, all around, and think that 200k brews make too much content too easy to trivialize (especially considering you can easily kill any given NM 3-4 times per brew...50k for a guaranteed solo kill, it's just silly).

But hey, to each his own. One way or another, I'm probably going to be done with Abyssea when the next content patch hits. Worst case I wasted some time now working to keep my Sam in top shape? Not really that terrible of a scenario.

[Fievel]

Who cares? You both just made this entire thread a giant wall of text that nobody gives two fucks about.

You're the best outside of abyssea? good job, 75 content is hard.

[FailureMidgard]

Who cares? You both just made this entire thread a giant wall of text that nobody gives two fucks about.

You're the best outside of abyssea? good job, 75 content is hard.

Hi, welcome to the relic augments thread. Nobody gives a fuck about relics to begin with because they all suck. I personally don't give a fuck about inside Abyssea because I can't seem to find a goddamn reason to include anyone other than myself really when I actually go do stuff inside Abyssea. I'm glad you feel so tough, but in the end, 75 content is still "tougher" and "more challenging" and requires more dmg output than any content added in Abyssea thus far, but it was a solid attempt at sarcasm anyway.

Oh and again, Abyssea -will- end. I guess you can shut your eyes and hope it doesn't happen because you're unable to deal with the game when MP is a limited resource/etc/etc, but I'm pretty sure it'll come in the near future.

[Fievel]

Because I said abyssea wont end.

What I'm saying is at 90 all 75 content is easy, all of it, no matter what, I don't care how hard you think it was at 75, it's not now. Argueing over what gear you're going to wear and what job is the bestest ever outside abyssea really doesn't mean shit seeing as WE DONT KNOW WHATS COMING NEXT UPDATE. There will be new mobs, new gear, possibly new zones with new addons, so why the fuck are you argueing?

So again I say, you're the best outside abyssea, good job, 75 content is hard.