Relic Augments

[Appie]

That would totally


Fuck with mythics lol.

Because DD mythics that got a relic counterpart are so fucking awesome now?

Not that I think they will dump OAT on relics, but the only jobs who'd actually be hurt from it would be jobs that got no relic, everybody else will have a big party =D

[Ayn]

Spoiler: show

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...Apoctrial2.png

I can hardly await to see what the next trial is. Hopefully it's killing 1500 moogles.

[zaps]

Ghorns going to be virelai 1500 X mobs

[Asmoranomar]

More like "Requiem 1500 Heraldic Imps"

[ZhiGaruda]

Because DD mythics that got a relic counterpart are so fucking awesome now?

Not that I think they will dump OAT on relics, but the only jobs who'd actually be hurt from it would be jobs that got no relic, everybody else will have a big party =D

Honestly, they either have to do something epic to relics (absolutely ridiculous base damage or +STR/ATK/Haste/Other stupid things) or add OAT. OAT Magian weapons can come far too close to relic weapons as they stand - I doubt SE will have added those +DMG augments and leave it at that. For all the money and hard work, something big will have to be done to keep them above-par.

[Appie]

Which do exactly come close? I hear Magian OAT Polearm comes close/beats Gungnir, but don't know about others except that H2H's OAT weapon is utter failga (like Glanzfaust).

[Kirschy]

DRK in my LS recently did the OAT Scythe. We parsed a few times. I won once in Ein by a few%, and then lost by like 1% in the ein afterwards. (He was assist both times which skews things a bit of course. I had him slightly in KParser's Performance Total DPS.) We also did an hour long Limbus parse as the only two DD, and I had him by about ~5%.

Skill-wise we're both very competent top-tier DD, although if I had to guess he's probably a slightly better DD than I am.

Parses generalli look like this:
Average damage from Guillotine from OAT Scythe is about the same as average damage from Cata.

He has a much higher frequency of WS than I do, but my average swing is much higher than his.

[ZhiGaruda]

Which do exactly come close? I hear Magian OAT Polearm comes close/beats Gungnir, but don't know about others except that H2H's OAT weapon is utter failga (like Glanzfaust).

Barring utility (things like Apoc's ability to drain, Yochi's lesser-enmity weapon skill or Annili's enmity-shedding weapon skill) many weapons can come very close to relics, which just doesn't quite seem fair. Magian relic augments give SE the chance to modify the weapons and tweak them to be well above-par with other weapons that may have been added in the many years since relics were introduced.

I haven't been around much to follow it, but I imagine the OAT bow/gun/scythe/katana are all well above-grade for other weapons in the category, and I would imagine allow them, again barring utility other than damage, to keep up damage-wise with relics?

All of this could just be completely wrong, but it's just what's on my mind involving the situation.

[Vodou]

Barring utility (things like Apoc's ability to drain, Yochi's lesser-enmity weapon skill or Annili's enmity-shedding weapon skill)

Just a minor nitpick....

Yoichi has very low enmity namas plus a big bonus to racc during afternmath, Anni has an even lower enmity coronach (50% of namas hate) and a -20 to enmity (equipment side) on enmity actions during aftermath. Neither sheds hate, resets hate, is hateless, etc. (in reference to the many statements people have posted over the years.)

all the rest you posted I'm 100% on board with...

[ZhiGaruda]

Just a minor nitpick....

Yoichi has very low enmity namas plus a big bonus to racc during afternmath, Anni has an even lower enmity coronach (50% of namas hate) and a -20 to enmity (equipment side) on enmity actions during aftermath. Neither sheds hate, resets hate, is hateless, etc. (in reference to the many statements people have posted over the years.)

all the rest you posted I'm 100% on board with...

Oh, sorry, I didn't know. I just knew there was this RNG in an HNMLS on my server who would be spamming Slug's on Nidhogg, have crazy hate, pop a Coronach and seem to just "lose" all his hate, and then continue doing crazy Slug's for a minute or two without pulling it back D:

[Amok]

We also did an hour long Limbus parse as the only two DD, and I had him by about ~5%.

Interesting stuff. Just wondering, was the margin 5% of his damage of 5% of total damage? Cus if it was the latter you did about 10% more than him which imo justifies Apoc.

[Kirschy]

Interesting stuff. Just wondering, was the margin 5% of his damage of 5% of total damage? Cus if it was the latter you did about 10% more than him which imo justifies Apoc.

It was the latter, so I had 10% more damage. We had BRD/COR/DNC, Hasso up most of the time.

We did a similar Limbus last night, although no dancer, so we mostly used Seigan. I was playing a bit more defensively than him using Hasso and Souleater less, and ended up ahead by only 1-2%.

I feel it's a very strong scythe, slightly behind on Relic in pure damage, but lacking the utility of HP drain. (In both limbus, I was cured for only 1/3-1/2 of the damage I took, while he needed to be cured for all the damage he took.)

He's half done /w the 105 DMG scythe, so hopefully we'll get a chance to see how that parses before the next update~

[Vodou]

Oh, sorry, I didn't know. I just knew there was this RNG in an HNMLS on my server who would be spamming Slug's on Nidhogg, have crazy hate, pop a Coronach and seem to just "lose" all his hate, and then continue doing crazy Slug's for a minute or two without pulling it back D:

You raise an interesting point for which I am uncertain. Although, my experience is, when spamming coronach, full hate resets do not occur.

It's possible (in theory) that if there was a value maintained of let's say xxx enmity (where xxx >0), and also quite large, that coronach could floor the enmity value to some "floored value" less than xxx but much larger than zero. Typical tests on low level mobs might never reveal this due to the "floored value" being greater than what was tested on the mobs.

This is again in theory. In practice, I don't think any enmity calculations have been found to work that way and it seems far too exotic for the more practical nature of the coding we have experienced.

If Kaeko could consider this, I'd be happy to help test this, but I'm not quite sure how to proceed if a partial reset only occurs at high values.

[Nameless]

Just curious, in limbus he can probably go with a 5 hit build while still capped in acc. Does he have the gears to try it out? There will be alot of tp overflow due to the frequency of the WS so it would be interesting to see how that goes. Thank you.

[Kaeko]

You raise an interesting point for which I am uncertain. Although, my experience is, when spamming coronach, full hate resets do not occur.

It's possible (in theory) that if there was a value maintained of let's say xxx enmity (where xxx >0), and also quite large, that coronach could floor the enmity value to some "floored value" less than xxx but much larger than zero. Typical tests on low level mobs might never reveal this due to the "floored value" being greater than what was tested on the mobs.

This is again in theory. In practice, I don't think any enmity calculations have been found to work that way and it seems far too exotic for the more practical nature of the coding we have experienced.

If Kaeko could consider this, I'd be happy to help test this, but I'm not quite sure how to proceed if a partial reset only occurs at high values.

You could go RNG/RDM and spam 33 Dispels (putting you at 10,000CE), then pop a Coronach and try to see if you are still at 10k CE. If Coronach is more than fixed low CE/VE and in fact has some actual CE/VE shedding properties you would catch any lowered CE there.

If you want to specifically check VE shedding you could try to go RNG/PLD (if you have 30 PLD) and use sentinel + some hate moves to cap VE then repeat.

I personally doubt they would add even more enmity shifts on Coronach simply because its so damn strong already, but would be an interesting test.

[ZhiGaruda]

The only reason I raise this point is because, as far as I can tell from the description, Coronach should only lower the amount of enmity gained from the following abilities. It should have no effect on the enmity gained prior to usage. This however, did not seem to be the case. Test test test!

[tymora]

They are dropping quotas....AFTER I finished my 1500 killshots.

Big F.U F.M lol...

[Rhealana]

It's a good thing I only got to 550 left to go on first trial........

[SovereignFFXI]

The only reason I raise this point is because, as far as I can tell from the description, Coronach should only lower the amount of enmity gained from the following abilities. It should have no effect on the enmity gained prior to usage. This however, did not seem to be the case. Test test test!

This actually does seem to be the case from my experience with it, though I've got no testing or analytical background to substantiate that claim, only my experience over the last two months as an Annihilator owner.

I'd be willing to help run a few tests, though the math behind this game never really interested me a whole lot so I cant say I'd know a lot about exactly how to go about testing this lol

[Dontkare]

They are dropping quotas....AFTER I finished my 1500 killshots.

Big F.U F.M lol...

Don't worry too much, they also said that for those who completed the trials before the update, they will have easier trials to further upgrade.