Relic Augments

[Chen]

I feel really bad for people with multiple relics....maybe my Bow test never dropping (0/25) was a blessing in disguise.

aye, realistically anyone with like 3 or more relics would need to be playing a ton, and giving up almost every moment to get the their weapons prepared for the next update.

really a downer for people working on their relic atm too, i know it's putting me off.

[BerenTebogo]

I've reflected upon my earlier "lawl" and concluded that I genuinely do feel sorry for you guys. You're being forced to do more work than it takes to make most Magian weapons just in order to stay competitive.
Bravura: D99, 488 delay, 20 Acc, and the ability to give yourself -20% M/PDT + double procs.
Bravura+2: D106, 488 delay, 20 Acc, and the ability to give yourself -20% M/PDT + double procs.
Abyssean Great Axe: D109, 482 delay
Vermail Bhuj: D104, 504 delay (21 STP is convenient), 8 STR, and Additional Effect Amnesia. (D106 with converted fSTR, and the STR gives even more base damage during WS)

You don't grind out that next 3500 mobs, your epeen starts shrinking to near-invisible levels because someone has a higher damage Great Axe than you, and people who didn't kill a single Magian mob have a pretty comparable great axe to you.

One monster every 30 seconds, you're looking at almost 30 hours of killing to get the current final stage. Solo? You're looking at something closer to 1 kill every 2 minutes. Make that 120 hours. Some relic owners I know don't log that much time in a month, and certainly don't want to spend every moment in game killing _____ type of monster just so that they can finish their upgrades only to have the requirements increase further. There's no point in having an awesome weapon if it takes you so long to get that you never do anything else in the game.

Miss a few upgrades though, and even non-magian options (like Vermail Bhuj) will start to surpass your relic.



For some reference, there are only 720 hours in a 30-day month.

I did pretty much this same scribble math when I saw the update. I haven't been playing for about a month now but I had planned to set aside like 1 hour every day to work on my Bravura trial just so I would feel like I hadn't crossed a point of no return in FFXI (aka if I come back in December, let's say, and am a total of 10,000ish killshots away from being even with other Bravura owners I'd just uninstall right away).

However after I did the scribbles and decided that it would take me more time than exists between now and the next update to do the trials at 1 hour per day I just said fuck it, and my last remaining ties to FFXI have gone out the window, lol. Some things just aren't worth it in a game this old, really, and spending 120 hours upgrading your relic to make it still be top of the top after hundreds and maybe thousands of hours over years spent working towards the relic or relic(s) in some cases (<--).

I know there always exists the response "well if you don't like it don't do it" etc, but really, the option of not doing it invalidates the ~150m that was spent on the relic, the hundreds of hours acquiring that money, the effort of your friends and LS mates to help you with the items, etc, and leaves you with a weapon that seems to have "enjoy the wasted years of your life!" inscribed on the handle.

...In fact, if anyone ever translates the writing on Apocalypse I'm pretty sure it'll come out to something similar to above.

[FailureMidgard]

aye, realistically anyone with like 3 or more relics would need to be playing a ton, and giving up almost every moment to get the their weapons prepared for the next update.

really a downer for people working on their relic atm too, i know it's putting me off.

If I had known this would happen, I wouldn't have bothered spending the gil on a relic, tbh. It's not that a relic isn't the best, it's just not worth all that gil + this on top of it, but at this point ya, I feel like I pretty much have to do these trials or quit!

[Cutriss]

Let me know when you can use a relic WS synced down below 75.

A poor example perhaps, but for a number of these mobs 76+ will push you out of the optimal range, and that was really the intent of my post.

[Limlight]

relic dependent but I feel that my apoc due to cata is still the best weapon by far for drk. loldrk I know etc.

Still i'm not going to kill myself (I was doing 400 mob kill shots a day for trial 2, maybe I'll do 100-150 on days that I decide to do it. No rush.

3300 mobs to go -_- oyi

[machiko]

I really don't think they understand quite how bad these trials are when they add them, even hardcore play all day players flynch at them. The brain numbing boredom of it is just getting a bit too much, added to that the fighting over mobs.

The fact they are adding them every update means while you are working on the current 1500 killshots and 2000 killshot trials this update, you know they will add more of even more horrible proportions next update and the worst part of all is you are doing all this just to keep up with magian weapons. If these trails were overpowering relics then there would be a lot more excitment in it but it's not really, it's just trying to keep up.

I understand everything they do is just a really massive timesink for as little dev work as is possible but this is really pushing it now, especially with the way they work on the game and the plans(or lack of them) they have for FFXI's future. Years ago this would of been more palatable but it's pretty fucking shitty to do it now.

On the very minor chance a SE dev would ever read this, STOP fucking increasing the amounts, 3500 killshots this update... It's really easy to get stuck in and put all day in doing these till you finish, 3-4 weeks worth. Thats a pretty good way to piss people off to the point of not wanting to play this game anymore.

[Appie]

I seriously hope they do read this indeed, maybe I should mail them with this. Hell, maybe we all should, if BG can get people there black belt/ghorns back we can nerf quests too? =D

[Vyvian]

While I find these trials extremely boring, I like the fact that I can upgrade my relic and keep it the best weapon by spending some time, without needing to go do an event or camp some NM with a 1% drop rate.

It only makes sense that we'll have to keep doing trials, it would be terrible design by SE to raise level caps and not make higher level gear better than lower level gear. And each trial they add further makes the weapon stronger.

Yeah, I'll probably take a couple weeks to do this, but in the end I think it will be worth it.

[Kalasin]

While I find these trials extremely boring, I like the fact that I can upgrade my relic and keep it the best weapon by spending some time, without needing to go do an event or camp some NM with a 1% drop rate.

It only makes sense that we'll have to keep doing trials, it would be terrible design by SE to raise level caps and not make higher level gear better than lower level gear. And each trial they add further makes the weapon stronger.

Yeah, I'll probably take a couple weeks to do this, but in the end I think it will be worth it.

This.

If i had to camp some retarded NM with a random pop pattern which ends up spawning once every 8 hours, then needing a drop from it with a maybe 5% drop rate, I wouldn't even bother. This is the best way to make relics better, believe it or not.

[Linsivi]

Just be happy your relics have an option to be upgraded, horn and shield are really fucking sad right now.

[Chen]

no-one is complaining about killing lizards

people are complaining about killing 1500 lizzards.

[Shenrien]

Just be happy your relics have an option to be upgraded, horn and shield are really fucking sad right now.

cause every item in the game is making horn and shield look like shit.

[Draylo]

Horn won't be sad once ballad 3 arrives next update!

[Appie]

I think it's worth it too ("Counter II" better be another 10% =D) and it's cool they keep relics on top, but 3500 KILLshots? I don't mind doing my relic WS 3500 times, but killshots is just so goddamn annoying. They could have put a little more thought into it.

For a 1500 kill trial, I'll end up killing about 1700 mobs, either due to wiffed main hits, lower WS dmg than I can expect 90% of the time resulting in a 1% hp mob and then some that are simple human fuck ups. If they adjusted it to: "do WS in the last 25% HP of the mob" I would have been a whole lot happier than I am now.

This.

If i had to camp some retarded NM with a random pop pattern which ends up spawning once every 8 hours, then needing a drop from it with a maybe 5% drop rate, I wouldn't even bother. This is the best way to make relics better, believe it or not.

This is exactly what I thought while doing the second trial. It is not what I think when halfway on the 3rd trial.

What I'm thinking halfway on 3rd is: hmm maybe smn burn a brd mule to 80 for march x2+haste for 60% hasted MNK ready for when sept trials hit. Which will be 2k+ killshots once again because SE can't think of anything else.

[Draciont]

Ill just say this sure wish I did Horn or Shield right about now. Even being a perma bard sounds better then 1500 killshots on lizards and 2000 killshots on dragons for excal. Not to mention i have never seen so many triple attacks where all these add effect proc and kill the mobs from 60%.

Oh and a side note I would like to stab the person that thought it was a good idea to put excal and apoc on the same trial 3 for something we cant even team up to do...

[Yabby]

no-one is complaining about killing lizards

people are complaining about killing 1500 lizzards.

I wouldn't be pissed if it was killing 1500 lizards if that was the only thing.... KILLSHOT sucks. This wouldn't be bad if you could get a few friends and just go rape a shitton of lizards without having to WS for the killshot. Also fucking sucks when you WS and the mob is at 1% or you double attack with a super crit and kill it by mistake.


Edit: Also about the ghorn upgrade, at this point i'm just hoping they don't add better horns at this point so i don't have to upgrade if its anything as bad as the current relics.

[FailureMidgard]

This.

If i had to camp some retarded NM with a random pop pattern which ends up spawning once every 8 hours, then needing a drop from it with a maybe 5% drop rate, I wouldn't even bother. This is the best way to make relics better, believe it or not.

You must be really lacking in imagination to believe this is the best way. I'll toss out just a couple random ideas, but really, I could go on forever.

1. Really hard solo-esque version of Maat, have to go farm a pop item each time you try.
2. Hard 6-man battlefield that the relic person has to start, anyone can help. This would be preferable to 1 as you could actually tune it better. I'm sure they could make it so it wouldn't be beaten on the first day. If you want, make it like 50 killshots with Kaiten in order to get the popitem, that's a little under 1hr of grinding per attempt.
3. Use their exact same system but scale it: Acquire 40,000 experience points where the killing blow was Tachi: Kaiten. At the very least there'd be some reward to doing higher level mobs, keeping up a chain, etc. Could get in a merit party for some of these new ones, and it'd literally be 1/8th the time investment if you're good at sniping killshots.
4. Add new drops equiv to attestations and fragments to dynamis. Make the fights slightly harder but have a higher droprate.

Anyway, these are super-simple ways to go about it, but fuck, I'd prefer anything to what's currently implemented.

[Jeryhn]

I dunno why people are complaining about having to killshot 1500 lizards when inevitably when Aegis gets its Magian upgrades the requirement will be killshot 1500 corses with Shield Bash.

[machiko]

Just be happy your relics have an option to be upgraded, horn and shield are really fucking sad right now.

If I had a relic horn I would be pretty happy honestly, nothing added this update does anything to the superiority of that, I assume it's the same for shield. All other melee relics...not so much, they aren't that powerful to begin with anyway.

As someone else said I don't think anyone minds this method of upgrading relics, but the amounts are way overdone. It's way too much for keeping up with free easier to get weapons and killshots make it a lot worse than just regular WS counts.

As an idea it takes roughly 10 hours+ for me to do 250 killshot points per day(taking into account competition for mobs/non killing ws hits etc), So thats 60 hours for the first & 80 hours for the 2nd doing the same inane crap over and over and over only to look forward to yet another one coming soon.

[Cutriss]

I dunno why people are complaining about having to killshot 1500 lizards when inevitably when Aegis gets its Magian upgrades the requirement will be killshot 1500 corses with Shield Bash.

If Magians can track added-effect-proc and WS kills, it can probably also track shield blocks. I would expect that Aegis would have to shield block n times on a given mob family...so...just stack Shield skill+, go /DNC, aggro up three of 'em, engage a distant fourth target, and let the "fun" begin.