Relic Augments

[machiko]

Has anyone finished these up yet and used it in a 75 sync party to see what is removed from the relic, stat wise. Guessing just the last upgrade?

[Wrish]

No one's arguing it's hard. In fact, if you've read a number of the posts carefully, most relic owners posting here wouldn't have an issue of 'challenge' or 'difficulty'. We're arguing that it's needlessly tedious

Tedious, I'd think no one would disagree. But sorry, this is reality. Since when was attaining a relic other than tedious? ("Currently at 4782/6400 shells 4th stage!") The economics of catering to a relatively small population of hardcore achievers - the relic owners - unfortunately dictates that exclusive quests be monotonous and storylines, austere (or else that they be too easy).

And let's not forget back when relics were introduced. I personally opined to others that very few would ever be completed. How wrong I was. People got creative. Farmed a lot of money. Sold big drops. Sponsored runs. Pooled their resources. Vandalized banks. Knowledge about special relic properties spread like wildfire; people worked even harder. Look at how many completed relics we now have. I still don't know how many people managed it. That's because they thought up ideas different than I.

Now I look at the relic enhancement quests, and they're simply a piece of cake - unless of course you didn't earn the relic, in which case the numbers might be very daunting. No way SE's changing them - that's all I'm saying. You were creative back then; you can be creative enough now to make it bearable.

Here's my example. I learned to make a lot of money farming on my own. When the quest calls for me to kill thousands of some mob family, I start to list the most valuable of that mob family to go after. Upon completing the quest, I haven't wasted a full workweek. I have quite a bit of money to show for it.

As people like Tekki and Kirschy noted, there's already a limited amount of time to play XI.

Generally, I thought people with limited time would never attain relics. In hindsight, you put a lot of time into yours, didn't you? And that still shows. A level 80 with a base relic tells a story of someone who spent lots of time in previous years and who now has a busy life. Nothing really wrong with that. You could have been a basketball star in years past, but without recent practice, you can't expect to compete against the best today. But you're still a former star.

If you're going to make the argument that there are over 100 waking hours of the week, do you work a 50 hour a week job?

You say you have no sympathy for a set of relic owners. That's great, you're entitled to viewpoint. However, you also sorely lack perspective, and judging by the content of your posts, basic reading comprehension skills.

I've worked from 30 to 80 hours weekly, and the condition I return home in varies greatly on the type of job and how I handle stresses. People say I work really hard. I wouldn't be so enthused if my job were mind-numbing. That's the power of perspective. If you're all burned out after a day's work, why must you keep doing it?

[Blasta]

Now I look at the relic enhancement quests, and they're simply a piece of cake - unless of course you didn't earn the relic, in which case the numbers might be very daunting. No way SE's changing them - that's all I'm saying. You were creative back then; you can be creative enough now to make it bearable.

I guess it's piece of cake in a way, that you just go bust a whole buncha weapon skills. All it requires is you, being there. It doesn't require anything, so i don't know what is this "creative" thing you are talking about. In english the quest would say: Go to an area and perform this same action 1000s of times. Its just stupid. Atleast in the actual upgrading quest, you HAD to come up with the ideas of making solid money, even though for the most people, it means killing same NM over and over again.

You could have been a basketball star in years past, but without recent practice, you can't expect to compete against the best today. But you're still a former star.

I think we all agree on that example, but the thing is, this game is actually supposed to be fun (while relic owners are facing these challenges, and it often turns into not so much fun). I mean seriously, its 2010, i sure expect a little bit more than an NPC telling me to WS a mob for 1000s of times. It's just too... you know i cant even find words to describe this.

[Wrish]

We're saying the same thing. I used to hunt X NM. Someone else used to hire out their nuking services. You used to run that hawker's+1 factory. At the end of the day, we made a lot of money because we balanced efficiency with variety.

Same thing with this quest. I read "Perform this action 1000s of times" to mean "Minimize the time between actions" and "Make it as easy as possible" and "Perform this action on a handful of different mobs of the same family." The first means I bring haste/march/elegy/healing. The second means I macro everything into a standard routine and select the right difficulty of mob. The third... variety is the spice of life.

[Ayn]

Now I look at the relic enhancement quests, and they're simply a piece of cake - unless of course you didn't earn the relic, in which case the numbers might be very daunting. No way SE's changing them - that's all I'm saying. You were creative back then; you can be creative enough now to make it bearable.

It's not really a question of finishing it. We'll all (those of us determined) to finish it will find some way: Whether it's having LS mates come out, playing a drinking game every time I whiff a WS, or having my Taru mule spam dance4 each time I WS and see how long I can keep at it.

Regardless, I think we at least both agree on the main thing: It's tedious as hell.

Where the disagreement comes from is that you think most of the relic owners (if that's not, then do correct me) are being whiny about it. Fair enough -- let us whine about it, don't view the thread. I am normally not fond of the "Authority of experience" argument (i.e. "You don't know until you have one") but there's a lot to be said once you've gone through the process of completing it.

Again, I think you're in agreement with a lot of the posts, but you seem to dislike/don't agree with the tone. Fair enough, but you probably shouldn't be posting in this thread because you're really not going to put it in perspective for anyone. We've analyzed it from various viewpoints. The consensus, once you get past a lot of the griping is "Holy shit, this is a tedious, uncreative trial and SE could've done better. I'll either deal with it or not"

Tedious, I'd think no one would disagree. But sorry, this is reality. Since when was attaining a relic other than tedious? ("Currently at 4782/6400 shells 4th stage!") The economics of catering to a relatively small population of hardcore achievers - the relic owners - unfortunately dictates that exclusive quests be monotonous and storylines, austere (or else that they be too easy).

It looks like you're attempting to put the process of obtaining the actual relic on the same level as the process of completing the trials. Yes, they're both tedious, but in different ways. Furthermore, there's the freak chance of, while in the midst of acquiring your relic, you luck out with a KS99, ZNM, calling in a favor, or whatever to speed up the process. That does not exist here. You are not going to suddenly killshot a mob and it counts for 100 kills instead of one.

I've worked from 30 to 80 hours weekly, and the condition I return home in varies greatly on the type of job and how I handle stresses. People say I work really hard. I wouldn't be so enthused if my job were mind-numbing. That's the power of perspective. If you're all burned out after a day's work, why must you keep doing it?

Fair enough on the work thing. I'd try to quantify mine too, but I teach, so enough said there. And that last question is what some people ask. They keep upgrading their relics for.. well shit, read the thread, all the reasons are listed there.

But again, back on topic so Tekki doesn't squash me:

I forgot all about bats. That gives me some hope for trial #4. I may scoot out to Uleguerand to hit some more today, later.

I'm really eager to see if "Enhances Counter II" and such mean an increased bonus. Either way, final Apoc trial is another bump in Weapon Rank for me.

[machiko]

Now I look at the relic enhancement quests, and they're simply a piece of cake - unless of course you didn't earn the relic, in which case the numbers might be very daunting.

I wish people would stop with this argument. Some get relics handed to them from a LS with very little work but they are in the minority, most people have to put in huge amounts of work/time and effort to get a relic. This process for many players breaks them(of the desire to play anyway), and they quit soon after finishing.

For the ones that hold fast and keep playing after finishing you really think MORE horrible boring monotonous shit is a good thing? I mean I can accept a degree of it but the method and numbers are way overboard. Also just because people had the desire and determination to do such a mammoth task at one point in their playing life does not mean they still do, the game has changed and so could their situation within the game/rl.

It's like saying oh you ran 1000 miles 2 years ago you can run 500 more right now, gtfo with that stupid crap.

[Weeks]

I wish people would stop with this argument. Some get relics handed to them from a LS with very little work but they are in the minority, most people have to put in huge amounts of work/time and effort to get a relic. This process for many players breaks them(of the desire to play anyway), and they quit soon after finishing.

Almost without exception, the people who paid market value for their relics made that gil outside of the rules. The vast majority of relics were completed with far less work than Square intended. The fact that the grind was still too much for many owners doesn't really change the fact that Square intended it to be an ordeal.

[Blasta]

Relic upgrade was never easy, so it's fine that the re-upgrade quests are somewhat tedious. What kills me is that they had so many options regarding the content of the re-upgrade quest.

For example, every single relic item came from Dynamis areas, why not actually make the quest something relic-related, instead of talking to some npc and blasting away easy-prey mobs.

P.S Bringing friends along to march you and scheduling for example, 50 WS per day is not being Creative in my opinion

[NynJa]

Tedious, I'd think no one would disagree. But sorry, this is reality. Since when was attaining a relic other than tedious? ("Currently at 4782/6400 shells 4th stage!") The economics of catering to a relatively small population of hardcore achievers - the relic owners - unfortunately dictates that exclusive quests be monotonous and storylines, austere (or else that they be too easy).

Friends can help you with your relic, in the sense they can help find cheap currency, give you currency, be your dynamis slave, etc etc. You cant get much help on this, short of getting someone to be your bitch mage for 60 hours. Most camps wont be too viable under the notion of killing faster = better, since you'll just be sitting waiting for repops. Doesnt matter if you kill 5 out of 5 mobs in 2 minutes, or 5 out of 5 mobs in 5 minutes, because you're still only going to wind up killing 5 mobs every 5 minutes.

[Konda]

Friend just finished Amano
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l1...628_122042.png

Can confirm you DONT get Kaiten under sync at any level. Kaiten is lv80 onry with this.

Aftermath appears to be the same from beating up some lessers. no immediatly noticible increase if there is one.

inb4 nq water staff.

[MNKing]

Friend just finished Amano
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l1...628_122042.png

Can confirm you DONT get Kaiten under sync at any level. Kaiten is lv80 onry with this.

Aftermath appears to be the same from beating up some lessers. no immediatly noticible increase if there is one.

inb4 nq water staff.

Gratz!!

notice any diffrence on the proc rate for X2 crit or atk?

[Nermie]

great - now we have to make a lvl75 relic and a lvl80 relic

[Konda]

Gratz!!

notice any diffrence on the proc rate for X2 crit or atk?

again, nothing immediatly obvious.

[Onorgul]

Can confirm you DONT get Kaiten under sync at any level. Kaiten is lv80 onry with this.

Aftermath appears to be the same from beating up some lessers. no immediatly noticible increase if there is one.

If at all possible, try to parse the proc rate of the additional effect. It should also bear testing to see if it reduced Attack further than before. I say this as the Additional Effect is equivalent to things like "Enhances Counter effect II" and such on the relics without procs. If Burtgang is any indicator, I'd expect a ~20% increase in proc rate and/or Attack Down.

[Eleven19]

Ffffffffffffff......

I couldn't bring myself to level up a magian trial GK. So, as of last night, I'm back to grinding this BS out. Konda would you mind telling me what your buddy did mob wise and whether or not he had some people helping out?

As disappointed and frustrated as I am with these quests... ugh, I can't not do it. God damn it. Push me over the cliff of hypocrisy.

[Malacite]

Sorry but...

holy shit @ 153+ M....

[Ayn]

Grats Konda's friend.

And yeah, we're all slaves to the addiction. I'm eventually going to gear up and do the Apoc trials. Was kinda hoping to hear about an increased STP effect for aftermath, aftermath duration increase.. or anything.

Maybe an additional proc rate up ?

Which for me would mean..blindness..proc rate..increase.

AFK shooting self.

[Konda]

erm, He did bombs in Mount Z with 2box'd WHM... fulltime hasso/haste

for birds, he did lesser colibri at leypoint again with whm 2box...

He was mostly solo, but I helped w/ a few hundred bombs when working on OAT katana, and some random NIN helped him for birds for an hour or so....

w/o help he says he was averaging 1-1.2 per min... and up to 2 per min w/ some1 else pulling.

I think he was aiming for around 500 a day, and seemed to fly through it.

I'd just suggest listening to a few good albums and slogging it out.

[Eleven19]

I'll have to sucker a whm into helping me lol. Sounds like the way to do it. I don't think I can get 500 a day unless I really grit my teeth and force it, but tell him congrats on getting it done.

[Phraust]

Wow brave mother fucker doing a WS based trial on Colibries lol... Would you like some feather tickle with your excruciating drudge through TP hell?