Relic Augments

**Neoex** · 2010-07-16 10:41

Originally Posted by Taint

My advise is to find a camp you can access quickly and easily. I'm in the middle of trial 3 but I find it very helpfuly to be able to get to camp fast and kill a few mobs between events and camps. Those 10-30 between kills add up very fast.

Im pretty inactive with LS activities and help out only when I can. my mules will be logged at location, so id rather almost find a hard to get to location knowing their will always be mobs up, and then just hammer 3-4hours sessions.

**Kalasin** · 2010-07-16 11:40

Originally Posted by Neoex

Im finally getting around to do these trials on my Bravura and christ on a fucking bike, I would level WHM or BST than this shit.. I am about to start 1500 plantoids

Any suggestions on low HP mobs with minimal TP moves,
I have a RDM and BRD PL to speed things up here are my choices:

Flytraps
Funguars
Goobbues
Morbols
Mandragora
Rafflesia
Sabotenders
Saplings
Treants

Any advice?

A friend did(is doing again now for new trial) rafflesia in fort, no idea if it's good or not have to find out yourself depending on how camped mobs are I guess.

**Humblejoe** · 2010-07-16 11:51

I don't know how your server is, but on mine I got bitched at for every single location I went to. Raptors in Kuftal I got bitched at because some BST said he needed them more than me. Birds in Sky were camped by people doing pages and I was told I was an asshole for doing it there because I ruined pages for people. Outside of Bhaflau/Wajaom, empty Leypoint, Valley of Sorrows etc. There's always going to be an asshole(s) who will bitch, camp on you, exp party, skillup person, or just plain asshole who wants to mess with you.

**Neoex** · 2010-07-16 11:53

Originally Posted by Kalasin

A friend did(is doing again now for new trial) rafflesia in fort, no idea if it's good or not have to find out yourself depending on how camped mobs are I guess.

Dont rafleshia have amnesia? nothing seems worse to me than having amnesia when trying to get a form of WS points

**Tyramut** · 2010-07-16 12:31

Originally Posted by Neoex

Dont rafleshia have amnesia? nothing seems worse to me than having amnesia when trying to get a form of WS points

I did 1500 killshots on Raff's in Fort K-N. They really don't use amnesia that much, or even get a WS off in time before you kill them. The anmesia effect doesn't last long at all, either.

Compared to all other viable plantoid mobs they hardly have any HP, plus there's so many of them in a relatively confined area.

I'd say try it out. All the Mandau people I manged to ween away from the tree to KN stayed there for good.

**Neoex** · 2010-07-16 13:22

Originally Posted by Tyramut

I did 1500 killshots on Raff's in Fort K-N. They really don't use amnesia that much, or even get a WS off in time before you kill them. The anmesia effect doesn't last long at all, either.

Compared to all other viable plantoid mobs they hardly have any HP, plus there's so many of them in a relatively confined area.

I'd say try it out. All the Mandau people I manged to ween away from the tree to KN stayed there for good.

thank you very very much, exactly the info i was looking for.

**Vyvian** · 2010-07-16 23:40

http://www.hksdynamis.com/Vyvian/spharai_finished.jpg

Yay finally done..

Now to do a counter test when I can get a rdm..

**Atomic Skull** · 2010-07-17 02:12

Originally Posted by CDF

Even if an 8 TP Asuran is possible, under the situation you posited, it is about a 1-in-26797 event, it would take a while to observe it (and if it's not possible, you would need to do a lot of WS to show statistically it is unlikely). Focusing on the rare event is not very productive.

Couldn't you force the first hit to miss in Ballista/Brenner with Utsumemi?

**jimbobsonofgod** · 2010-07-17 04:18

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/f...el80tizona.jpg
Fucking finally.

and 2 days early.

might put out a quick test before i log.

long week...

Did a small sample size
Damage to MP converted looks to be unchanged
but the convert rate is 10 procs in 55 swings.

Time to change my sig.

**Malacite** · 2010-07-17 17:31

Awesome, grats.

LOL wonder if you'll get a III trait in the next update for the level 90 version? (Oh lord what if they extend AM3 to 4 minutes?)

**Vyvian** · 2010-07-17 21:39

I ran a quick test for Counter II, and the results are not really what I was expecting.

I didn't start each parse until I had the monsters in position and my weapon was already out. I did this test on a herd of white mandies in Boyhada Tree.

I did a control test, where I had no counter gear, and an earth staff to reduce damage.

I was hit 743 times, and countered 104. So 847 counterable attacks
104/847 = 12.3~%

Spoiler: show

2nd test was basically the same, except for I equipped level 80 spharai.

I was hit 1012 times, and countered 272, for a total of 1284 counterable attacks.

272/1284 = 21.2~%

Given the chance for statistical randomness (I don't know how much), my conclusion is the Counter II does not further increase counter rate, but does something else that I have yet to notice (small counter damage increase?).

Spoiler: show

**Atoreis** · 2010-07-17 22:34

Originally Posted by Vyvian

I ran a quick test for Counter II, and the results are not really what I was expecting.

I didn't start each parse until I had the monsters in position and my weapon was already out. I did this test on a herd of white mandies in Boyhada Tree.

I did a control test, where I had no counter gear, and an earth staff to reduce damage.

I was hit 743 times, and countered 104. So 847 counterable attacks
104/847 = 12.3~%

Spoiler: show

2nd test was basically the same, except for I equipped level 80 spharai.

I was hit 1012 times, and countered 272, for a total of 1284 counterable attacks.

272/1284 = 21.2~%

Given the chance for statistical randomness (I don't know how much), my conclusion is the Counter II does not further increase counter rate, but does something else that I have yet to notice (small counter damage increase?).

Spoiler: show

Check your max dmg from counter and max dmg from normal hit(crit)

**Byrthnoth** · 2010-07-17 22:47

If I'm reading the numbers right, you seem to have a slight damage boost on the second counter compared to the first. However, I'm actually surprised to see so low a change considering your attack (and base damage?) increased dramatically when you switched from Terra's staff to Spharai.

Maybe Counter II gives Counter an accuracy bonus?

**Vodou** · 2010-07-17 23:08

Originally Posted by Vyvian

I ran a quick test for Counter II, and the results are not really what I was expecting.

I didn't start each parse until I had the monsters in position and my weapon was already out. I did this test on a herd of white mandies in Boyhada Tree.

I did a control test, where I had no counter gear, and an earth staff to reduce damage.

I was hit 743 times, and countered 104. So 847 counterable attacks
104/847 = 12.3~%

Spoiler: show

2nd test was basically the same, except for I equipped level 80 spharai.

I was hit 1012 times, and countered 272, for a total of 1284 counterable attacks.

272/1284 = 21.2~%

Given the chance for statistical randomness (I don't know how much), my conclusion is the Counter II does not further increase counter rate, but does something else that I have yet to notice (small counter damage increase?).

Spoiler: show

I'm doing something like this (don't have level 80's yet, but am through stage3, and I wanted a baseline for stage 4 Spharai.)

On tigers (capped accuracy) I had these results wearing Spharai but not using counterstance:

1647 hits, 399 counters (2046 total) which has a 19.5% counter. Was using usu gloves (+2), and have full merits.

From this test, my rate appears to be 19.5% +/- 1.6%.

The assumed base rate at 75 is 10%. With merits and gear I should at least have a 17.0% rate. This provides a very low rate for Spharai of around .9 to 4.1%.

In your first test, you had a CI of around 2.4% so you could have the expected rate of 15% since 12.3 +/- 2.4 is close to 15.0%.

In the second test, you have 21.2% +/- 2.2%. This implies Spharai could be between 4 and 8.4%.

Sort of looks like this: SE gave Spharai a rate of 5% on counter 1 and 10% on counter 2. It however is only processing 50% of the time. (Sounds familiar.)

Thus the 5% item rate x 50% = 2.5% on I and the 10% item rate x 50% proc rate = 5% on II.

I'm not sure if this is right and I'd like to be wrong. I have a mega test planned to start soon and should be able to verify the base rate. I'll track the counter II rate afterwards.

Another possibility is that the counter rate is dependent upon have CS on, which is possible, but I'd never have guessed that before. (SE has often seemed to confuse counter, counterstance, and counter attack before in its item descriptions.) Again, I hope that's wrong, but I don''t have lots of data to contradict this.

edited the CI's

**Appie** · 2010-07-18 01:48

This is what I parsed last thursday, it was only a parse of an hour or slighty less since I died from too much mandies and got distracted by rl crap. Didn't have a control test but no countergear used in this parse besides Spharai.

Code:

Damage Taken Summary
Player             Total Dmg   Damage %   Melee Dmg   Range Dmg   Abil. Dmg  WSkill Dmg   Spell Dmg  Other Dmg
Appie                  22024    99,60 %       19310           0        2000           0           0        714
Mourioche                 88     0,40 %          88           0           0           0           0          0
Total                  22112   100,00 %       19398           0        2000           0           0        714

Melee Damage Taken
Player             Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss   M.Low/Hi    M.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit%
Appie                  19310   87,68 %    503/602      0/106    37,86      5    74/116   90,80    0,99 %
Mourioche                 88  100,00 %        1/0      88/88    88,00      0       0/0    0,00    0,00 %

Passive Defenses
Player             Evasion  Evasion %   Parry  Parry %   Counter  Counter %   Intimidate  Intimidate %
Appie                  507    44,91 %       0   0,00 %       101    16,72 %            0        0,00 %

I don't what the mandy is doing in there, parser slip up? And the parse ended at 16, but was between 16-18% before that.

As for increased damage from counters, was looking for that too, since I'd love a Perfect Counter on my relic, but don't see anything to support that yet.

Code:

Other Physical Damage  (Counterattacks and Retaliations)
Player            CA.Dmg  CA.Hit/Miss  CA.Low/Hi  CA.Avg   Ret.Dmg  Ret.Hit/Miss  Ret.Low/Hi  Ret.Avg
Appie              13385        101/0     77/234  132,52         0           0/0         0/0     0,00

I'm thinking I either need to pick up some higher mobs so I evade less or get my cure mule down there and not just go /dnc XD

**Vyvian** · 2010-07-18 02:13

Originally Posted by Byrthnoth

If I'm reading the numbers right, you seem to have a slight damage boost on the second counter compared to the first. However, I'm actually surprised to see so low a change considering your attack (and base damage?) increased dramatically when you switched from Terra's staff to Spharai.

Maybe Counter II gives Counter an accuracy bonus?

I was quoting the defense tab, so the numbers are how hard I was being hit. Since I had the staff for -20% the numbers would be slightly smaller, but after phalanx 2, it was already small to begin with.

Sort of looks like this: SE gave Spharai a rate of 5% on counter 1 and 10% on counter 2. It however is only processing 50% of the time. (Sounds familiar.)

Thus the 5% item rate x 50% = 2.5% on I and the 10% item rate x 50% proc rate = 5% on II.

I honestly didn't do a test before completing because I had read that relic was counter+10% and I had assumed it had been tested to death, are you saying you think the original relic's counter value was lower? I basically full-time counterstance on anything I play mnk on, and I definitely noticed more counter rate, but never tried my own testing for a number.

I also began to wonder as I was watching it, if there is a counter cap that can't be broken without using counterstance? I thought it might be 20% because for like 300 of the hits it was fluctuating at 19.5%~19.9%, but then it finally broke over and kept increasing.

**Onorgul** · 2010-07-18 02:55

Originally Posted by Vyvian

I definitely noticed more counter rate

Without actual parsing, it's just as likely that you were Countering more often with Spharai 75 as that you thought you were because you imagined that was what the item did. I remember way back in like 2004 or so, I was convinced that Hundred Fists lasted a full 60 seconds based on something I'd read somewhere, probably bloody Allakhazam. Wishing didn't make it so, but if you'd asked me before someone with half a brain pulled out a stopwatch, I'd have told you that it had lasted 60 seconds for me each and every time.

Wasn't there something from the JPs about Spharai 75 only giving Counter +5? I seem to recall reading that a couple weeks back when discussions about Spharai 80 were going on.

**Vodou** · 2010-07-18 03:29

Originally Posted by Vyvian

I honestly didn't do a test before completing because I had read that relic was counter+10% and I had assumed it had been tested to death, are you saying you think the original relic's counter value was lower? I basically full-time counterstance on anything I play mnk on, and I definitely noticed more counter rate, but never tried my own testing for a number.

I also began to wonder as I was watching it, if there is a counter cap that can't be broken without using counterstance? I thought it might be 20% because for like 300 of the hits it was fluctuating at 19.5%~19.9%, but then it finally broke over and kept increasing.

I noticed that I made the mistake of not correcting for accuracy. (I think maybe you did too.)

New numbers for your test 2 on Spharai (80) (using 95% accuracy):
Counter rate 22.3%, base 10%, merits 5%, Spharai 7.3%. CI 2.2%.

My test on Spharai (75)
Counter rate 20.5%, base 10%, merits 5%, Usu 2%, Spharai 3.5%. CI 1.6%.

So, certainly, barring some counter rate cap when CS is not in effect, Spharai (75) do not give 10% counters. It could very well be that the amount is higher when CS is in effect however as that is what most of the tests I've seen have looked at.

Looks like Counter II is more, but the CI's are still large enough to technically support no difference at all. More testing should lock those down.

**Appie** · 2010-07-18 11:27

Originally Posted by Vyvian

I also began to wonder as I was watching it, if there is a counter cap that can't be broken without using counterstance? I thought it might be 20% because for like 300 of the hits it was fluctuating at 19.5%~19.9%, but then it finally broke over and kept increasing.

So far I'm between 19-20% for about 65% of 1200 hits I recieved in this parse at Den of rancor. Parse before in Boyahda I couldn't break 19% after 90mins of taking hits there. It's fucking pissing me off. Even if the original Spharai only had +5 and the upgraded version got +10, it shouldn't be THAT hard to simply get to 22% or higher no? Yet here I am, still trying to get it to top 19.96....

Then again that's at 88-89% acc, I should pop a sushi, see if it finally goes to 22% or if there is something else I'm missing.

If this boost only shows with Stance it's fucking fail.

**Vodou** · 2010-07-18 12:15

Originally Posted by Appie

So far I'm between 19-20% for about 65% of 1200 hits I recieved in this parse at Den of rancor. Parse before in Boyahda I couldn't break 19% after 90mins of taking hits there. It's fucking pissing me off. Even if the original Spharai only had +5 and the upgraded version got +10, it shouldn't be THAT hard to simply get to 22% or higher no? Yet here I am, still trying to get it to top 19.96....

Then again that's at 88-89% acc, I should pop a sushi, see if it finally goes to 22% or if there is something else I'm missing.

If this boost only shows with Stance it's fucking fail.

Two things:

1) on the mandy parse, I wonder if you were pulling more than 1 at a time? If so, it's possible that some were at an angle where you could not counter. Just a thought. Also, while the rate is low, the parse is also smaller and has a larger margin of error taken on its own. I had results that varied as low as 16% and as high as 21% in 5 separate counts.

2) on the Rancor parse, if you are at 88-89% acc and your rate is 19-20% then that is a 22% rate after adjustment. Sounds like the same rate Vyvian got which is unfortunately not a hot counter bonus, but does at least build more certainty of where the counter rate might be if CS is not on.

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