Relic Augments

[Tsuko_Asura]

Double~

[Eleven19]

Why do this kind of shit always turn into retarded arguments, when they can actually be solved with math?

I don't know the math. Either the guy's gear gets him the correct amount of sTP or it doesn't. That question is solvable lol. Instead of sitting here posting No ur wrong, why doesn't someone just post the god damn math lol.

So 5 STR or 10 AGI?

[FailureMidgard]

Why do this kind of shit always turn into retarded arguments, when they can actually be solved with math?

I don't know the math. Either the guy's gear gets him the correct amount of sTP or it doesn't. That question is solvable lol. Instead of sitting here posting No ur wrong, why doesn't someone just post the god damn math lol.

So 5 STR or 10 AGI?

That isn't even the fucking issue. Konda over here just said the guy is capped on gear, when he can get a 5hit while maintaining capped haste as /drg. Or, if you really think /war is better than 5% haste, jumps, and acc bonus, then you can just drop like 2% haste to get a 5hit, which is also worth it.

Past ALL that, Seiryu's Kote + Perle Boots = 15agi, 5str.
Heafoc Mitts + Hachiryu Boots = 13str, 10agi.

It's not even 5str vs 10agi atm, it's the fact he's choosing 15 agi over 13 str, then choosing 5str over 10agi. Do you see the contradiction there?

Get off your high horse, there is no retarded argument here, there is a retarded Konda (as usual) and other people that are more correct.

[Konda]

Sub dragoon. 5hit with capped haste. I was half joking before, because I don't fault people for not being capped on Abyssea gear, but 6hit is absolutely not capped, and I can't believe you think he is.

He's missing str+13 hands and potentially goading belt (if it's even useful)... but as you said, Abyssea is still pretty new and you can't expect everyone to be capped on drops. especially since we roll with a group of 6-10 instead of 30+ hnmls.

He's not /drg in this screenshot because we were doing Glavoid after capping time from bats. He's /nin in the SS but obviously identical to /WAR build.

As for /drg... the loss of berserk is pretty huge for Namas dmg.
he'd dropping berserk for 2.5 haste. Would you do the same for Amano? for /drg to be work a look in, you'd need to have like 2x brd, cor and dnc.

When ~80% of your damage and your WS dmg isnt that amazing in the first place, losing ~200 dmg per namas by losing berserk isnt the best course of action.

He's still testing it in various situations, but has definatly concluded it's not worth losing berserk unless you're buffed out of the ass with HQ meats, minuets and Chaos roll.
He's also concluded in Ein and Dynamis, he's parsing much lower than with Amano under same conditions. swapping to /drg in this isntances loses you berserk for next to no gain at all.

I was arguing that /drg 5hit would be best in the thread I made specifically about builds, and it didnt fare to be as good as everyone seemed to think when it was maths'd out.

this is the thread if you want to read it:
http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94798



oh, and for the record, he wanted me to mention he's 26% haste /war in salvage.

[Konda]

That isn't even the fucking issue. Konda over here just said the guy is capped on gear, when he can get a 5hit while maintaining capped haste as /drg. Or, if you really think /war is better than 5% haste, jumps, and acc bonus, then you can just drop like 2% haste to get a 5hit, which is also worth it.

Past ALL that, Seiryu's Kote + Perle Boots = 15agi, 5str.
Heafoc Mitts + Hachiryu Boots = 13str, 10agi.

It's not even 5str vs 10agi atm, it's the fact he's choosing 15 agi over 13 str, then choosing 5str over 10agi. Do you see the contradiction there?

Get off your high horse, there is no retarded argument here, there is a retarded Konda (as usual) and other people that are more correct.

the only retarded thing here is you assuming you more about Yoichi than someone who has it.

I know he's missing 13str hands and hachiryu boots WHICH WAS EXPLAINED HE DIDNT HAVE IN 2ND POST; he's not choosing it, but simply using the best he has available....but to call him gimp over it? stfu

to 5hit /war you're dropping sooo much WS gear, and before lv80 and goading belt, sooo much TP gear.

do you think he didnt look into it?


you've got the same dillusional view of Namas that everyone else seems to have (myself included, before he got it)

[Eleven19]

Get off your high horse, there is no retarded argument here, there is a retarded Konda (as usual) and other people that are more correct.

Well post all that information in the first place? I'd rather read about the reason the gear is off than just the idea that its off. Sorry if I came off as an ass.

If it were me, I probably would have chosen Seiryu kote over STR hands due to the raw r.acc on them, and the AGI as a bonus. The boots are less of a bonus to me, so I might want to use the STR boots instead. I guess it depends on what food you're using, though. I've no idea what Yoichi SAM uses as food to be honest.

[Fottiti]

You stated he was capped on gear except for a piece of abyssea gear, then used abyssea being new as an excuse for overlooking other pieces. So you are definitely wrong there.

/drg is absolutely worth it with a minimum of Brd+Cor, Brd+Brd, Brd+Dnc, for the kind of events where you won't be /nin you should have those buffers or you're doin' it wrong (ideally you will have all 3 jobs and since we're talking about an instanced event there is no excuse not to have atleast 2).

He can test it all he wants, but normally when you say that its like the retarded post you made in your LJ about tomoe vs amano on birds, which proved nothing at all.

Edit: I'm out, too much stupid gushing in now that we can't hope to stop it.

[Konda]

If it were me, I probably would have chosen Seiryu kote over STR hands due to the raw r.acc on them, and the AGI as a bonus. The boots are less of a bonus to me, so I might want to use the STR boots instead. I guess it depends on what food you're using, though. I've no idea what Yoichi SAM uses as food to be honest.

I'll say it again, because Failure and Tsuko are bound to ignore it....

He's not choosing to use 15 agi over 13 str.

He's not choosing to use 5 str over 10 agi.


why? because that's all he has to use in them slots.

christ

[Eleven19]

I'll say it again, because Failure and Tsuko are bound to ignore it....

He's not choosing to use 15 agi over 13 str.

He's not choosing to use 5 str over 10 agi.


why? because that's all he has to use in them slots.

christ

Ugh, sorry, I didn't word that correctly and I didn't mean that he was choosing those pieces purposely over the others. What I meant was that they seemed like perfectly acceptable pieces to me, and I'm always paranoid about my accuracy, so I myself would have perhaps picked to use those pieces based on the ranged accuracy being the stat I wanted first, not the STR.

[FailureMidgard]

He's missing str+13 hands and potentially goading belt (if it's even useful)... but as you said, Abyssea is still pretty new and you can't expect everyone to be capped on drops. especially since we roll with a group of 6-10 instead of 30+ hnmls.

I already said I don't expect them to be capped, but I'm not an idiot that comes out and says "Capped on gear except 1 item" when he seems to be missing upwards of 5.

As for /drg... the loss of berserk is pretty huge for Namas dmg.
he'd dropping berserk for 2.5 haste. Would you do the same for Amano? for /drg to be work a look in, you'd need to have like 2x brd, cor and dnc.

Nah, 1 brd, cor, dnc and /drg should be fine. The 2 SJs are pretty close atm anyway, when only 2.5% of the haste is used. When 4.5% is used, /drg gets better.

When ~80% of your damage and your WS dmg isnt that amazing in the first place, losing ~200 dmg per namas by losing berserk isnt the best course of action.

Assume it is 200 dmg per Namas (really though, get better buffs probably):
25% increase to WS rate, 100% of the time.
200 dmg per WS, 60% of the time, 120 dmg 100% of the time. 120 dmg must equal 25% of your WS damage, or 480 dmg Namas average without berserk. Is it actually that low? If it's breaking 500 without berserk, sorry, you and him are wrong, and it IS the best course of action. Again, you're also gaining haste, but I won't get into that . In any case, I'm not even debating subjob really, I'm ok with /war and realize the times /nin has merit. It's still worth -2% haste and a few misc stats to go to a 5hit.

He's still testing it in various situations, but has definatly concluded it's not worth losing berserk unless you're buffed out of the ass with HQ meats, minuets and Chaos roll.
He's also concluded in Ein and Dynamis, he's parsing much lower than with Amano under same conditions. swapping to /drg in this isntances loses you berserk for next to no gain at all.

Berserk isn't always up. I don't recall saying switch to dragoon for no gain at all either, I said switch to /dragoon to keep haste cap, as it's a swing of 4.5% haste otherwise. I don't recall the math on /drg vs /war, but stop this bullshit of "no gain". It's going from 21>26% haste, because a 5hit should be a given.

I was arguing that /drg 5hit would be best in the thread I made specifically about builds, and it didnt fare to be as good as everyone seemed to think when it was maths'd out.

this is the thread if you want to read it:
http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94798

06-16-2010 - your post
FFXI Version Update (6/21/10) - most recent patch

I'm basically going to not even read your post or anything else (though I looked at your gearsets) because they are completely obsolete. No idea why you'd link it a month later and think it's in any way relevant.

oh, and for the record, he wanted me to mention he's 26% haste /war in salvage.

I'll pretend you didn't make this comment, as it's in no way impressive or relevant to the discussion except for the fact that a 5hit is at 25% gear haste in salvage. I guarantee you that losing 1/2 a % of haste is worth picking up a 5hit.

[Konda]

/drg is absolutely worth it with a minimum of Brd+Cor, Brd+Brd, Brd+Dnc, for the kind of events where you won't be /nin you should have those buffers or you're doin' it wrong (ideally you will have all 3 jobs and since we're talking about an instanced event there is no excuse not to have atleast 2).
.

oh, you'll be speaking from experience here then?

you have both Yoichi and Amano and have tested the two against each other?
you'll have run extended maths calculations, taking all the factors into account?


and 3 buffers? did you miss the part about us being lowman and doing Glavoid with 10?

[FailureMidgard]

as far as I'm concerned he's maxed on equipment outside of 7% belt. unless you want to suggest something he can improve?
hachi feet are just a matter of time, some will pop in UJ sooner or later... that is, if they're even better than 5 STR.

Maxed on gear except 1 item. And the other 1 item you mentioned in your post.

the only retarded thing here is you assuming you more about Yoichi than someone who has it.

Such as he's not capped on gear? SUCH AN ASSUMPTION.

I know he's missing 13str hands and hachiryu boots WHICH WAS EXPLAINED HE DIDNT HAVE IN 2ND POST; he's not choosing it, but simply using the best he has available....but to call him gimp over it? stfu

Nah dude, he's capped on gear except bullwhipe.

to 5hit /war you're dropping sooo much WS gear, and before lv80 and goading belt, sooo much TP gear.

Not really, actually. You probably are clueless on it. /drg picks up accuracy to cover loss of that. You also pick up haste, allowing you to use Goading + Usu feet while maintaining 26% haste. If you are indeed not acc capped still because Pizza is not an option for a Yoichi Sam, then drop to Aces for half a haste loss, it is an upgrade if you use the haste.

Well post all that information in the first place? I'd rather read about the reason the gear is off than just the idea that its off. Sorry if I came off as an ass.

If it were me, I probably would have chosen Seiryu kote over STR hands due to the raw r.acc on them, and the AGI as a bonus. The boots are less of a bonus to me, so I might want to use the STR boots instead. I guess it depends on what food you're using, though. I've no idea what Yoichi SAM uses as food to be honest.

Honestly, I'm not sure about it, but I also didnt make comments like "... that is, if they're even better than 5 STR." In any case, it seems pretty obvious he isn't choosing stats for Racc, as he ignored every Racc piece out there, using a str ear over an agi ear, etc.

You stated he was capped on gear except for a piece of abyssea gear, then used abyssea being new as an excuse for overlooking other pieces. So you are definitely wrong there.

/drg is absolutely worth it with a minimum of Brd+Cor, Brd+Brd, Brd+Dnc, for the kind of events where you won't be /nin you should have those buffers or you're doin' it wrong (ideally you will have all 3 jobs and since we're talking about an instanced event there is no excuse not to have atleast 2).

He can test it all he wants, but normally when you say that its like the retarded post you made in your LJ about tomoe vs amano on birds, which proved nothing at all.

Edit: I'm out, too much stupid gushing in now that we can't hope to stop it.

Look, someone else thinks you're wrong. Don't worry, the whole world is out to get you.

I'll say it again, because Failure and Tsuko are bound to ignore it....

He's not choosing to use 15 agi over 13 str.

He's not choosing to use 5 str over 10 agi.


why? because that's all he has to use in them slots.

christ

I mean, I agree with you now that you've backpedaled a mile since your first argument.

Ugh, sorry, I didn't word that correctly and I didn't mean that he was choosing those pieces purposely over the others. What I meant was that they seemed like perfectly acceptable pieces to me, and I'm always paranoid about my accuracy, so I myself would have perhaps picked to use those pieces based on the ranged accuracy being the stat I wanted first, not the STR.

They are mostly acceptable pieces, but not when a claim is made about being capped on gear. And really, the 5hit is the bigger problem.

[FailureMidgard]

oh, you'll be speaking from experience here then?

you have both Yoichi and Amano and have tested the two against each other?
you'll have run extended maths calculations, taking all the factors into account?


and 3 buffers? did you miss the part about us being lowman and doing Glavoid with 10?

DID YOU MISS THE GODDAMN FUCKING PART WHERE YOU SPECIFICALLY SAID /DRG ISN'T WORTH IT UNLESS YOU HAVE 4 BUFFERS? Holy fuck dude, he's telling you the shit you spew is wrong, not that he most definitely should have been /drg for Glavoid. Also, you should have bolded the rest of the sentence, you know the part where he said "for events you don't need /nin at". Holy goddamn fuck you are stupid.

[Fottiti]

oh, you'll be speaking from experience here then?

you have both Yoichi and Amano and have tested the two against each other?
you'll have run extended maths calculations, taking all the factors into account?


and 3 buffers? did you miss the part about us being lowman and doing Glavoid with 10?

Would you do the same for Amano? for /drg to be work a look in, you'd need to have like 2x brd, cor and dnc.

I do have Amano, not that its remotely relevant because anyone with a calculator and 30mins on wiki can learn how to work it out.

Also, I understand how much attack berserk gives and I can estimate his ranged attack based on gear/skill and from that its possible to estimate how much his pdif is gonna change against a target with known defense. But seriously, I didn't do any of that shit because his ranged attack isn't going to be anywhere near that low for it to be in question for shit like einherjar.

/drg will win with much less support than you seem to think, also for an event like einherjar and depending on the size/killspeed of the group jumps will become a larger portion of your tp gain.

This has nothing to do with his chosen sub at the time the picture was taken, its to do with you talking out your ass about how /war beats /drg without every buff imaginable.

[Konda]

You keep going back to me saying he was capped. I'll admit I was wrong for his WS equipment. I've not been on much since lv80 and abyssea release and forgot about hands.

This is about /war vs /drg

it's in no way impressive or relevant to the discussion except for the fact that a 5hit is at 25% gear haste in salvage. I guarantee you that losing 1/2 a % of haste is worth picking up a 5hit.

i'd like to know how you 5hit as /war with 25% haste.

Assume it is 200 dmg per Namas (really though, get better buffs probably):
25% increase to WS rate, 100% of the time.
200 dmg per WS, 60% of the time, 120 dmg 100% of the time. 120 dmg must equal 25% of your WS damage, or 480 dmg Namas average without berserk. Is it actually that low? If it's breaking 500 without berserk, sorry, you and him are wrong, and it IS the best course of action

I said you lose approx ~200 damage from each weaponskill by losing berserk, not 200 DMG per weaponskills.

And how in the flying hell is it a static 25% increase in WS rate to go /drg?


It was concluded pretty solidly in the thread which

I'm basically going to not even read your post or anything else (though I looked at your gearsets) because they are completely obsolete

that /drg isn't optimal. thwe gear might be obsolete, but you're still using Soboro.

If you're compareing 6hit to 5hit, then it's not that simple. Soboro is multihit and as such, the reduced attack rounds to 100TP aren't always noticed like they are with a single swing weapon. I'm sure you're familiar with the concept of "TP overflor"

The best workable /war 5hit means you drop 6% haste and -3% delay. for occationally saving an attack round.

[Konda]

gdi, every post I make, 3 more pop up before I can reply to 1, making the whole arguement 50x messier and more confusing that it needs to be

[FailureMidgard]

I'll admit I was wrong

Finally.

This is about /war vs /drg

In any case, I'm not even debating subjob really, I'm ok with /war and realize the times /nin has merit. It's still worth -2% haste and a few misc stats to go to a 5hit.

i'd like to know how you 5hit as /war with 25% haste.

I'll pretend you didn't make this comment, as it's in no way impressive or relevant to the discussion except for the fact that a 5hit is at 25% gear haste in salvage.

And how in the flying hell is it a static 25% increase in WS rate to go /drg?

To get a 5hit you dense fucker.

It was concluded pretty solidly in the thread ...
that /drg isn't optimal.

06-16-2010 - your post
FFXI Version Update (6/21/10) - most recent patch

Hint: Abyssea has come up since your shitty obsolete conclusion. I totally agree that if it were still early June a 5hit would be bad. Maybe I'm alone in thinking it's not early June.

If you're compareing 6hit to 5hit, then it's not that simple. Soboro is multihit and as such, the reduced attack rounds to 100TP aren't always noticed like they are with a single swing weapon. I'm sure you're familiar with the concept of "TP overflor"

I agree, but it's close enough, and I guarantee you a 5hit is better.

The best workable /war 5hit means you drop 6% haste and -3% delay. for occationally saving an attack round.

You are fucking awful with math. Standard build with a VBelt has 23% haste, not 25.x%. With a Bullwhip, that's 24% haste. 5hit has 21%. That's 2% normally, 3% if you have a Bullwhip. With all the new items, the only haste you are dropping is VBelt to Goading and Dusk+1 to Usukane (feet).




Is it sad when I can respond to most of your post by fucking quoting my last post? I think it is.

[Konda]

You are fucking awful with math. Standard build with a VBelt has 23% haste, not 25.x%. With a Bullwhip, that's 24% haste. 5hit has 21%. That's 2% normally, 3% if you have a Bullwhip. With all the new items, the only haste you are dropping is VBelt to Goading and Dusk+1 to Usukane (feet).

I'm "fucking aweful at maths"?

lets look at your suggestion...

"Standard" set, so.... Usubod, Rajas, 5% belt, usufeet,brutal.

store TP: 35+24

with 450 dly GKT: 18.2 TP/hit. (using ffxicalc since you apparently dont trust me)


18.2 * 4 = 72.8.

so unless you're getting 27.2 TP return from your namas arrow, your "5hit" does't work.


however, I never said he didnt have a /drg set. I said he doesnt like using it because it sucks in the majority of the cases, and you didnt see it because he wasnt /drg in the SS.



Edit: perhaps you should have read the other thread, the STP required is still the same, there's just 1-2 more ways to achieve it with the new equipment.
5 Stp on the belt doesn't suddenly bridge the gap between 5hit and 6hit.

edit2: rose/chiv/attla/brutal/hachibod+1/hachi hands+1/rajas/stp2 mantle/Gbelt/hachi legs+1/usu feet = 27.3 return on Names.
can't wait to see the DMG you get fromt that.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Konda, why do you do this to yourself?

[FailureMidgard]

I'm "fucking aweful at maths"?

lets look at your suggestion...

"Standard" set, so.... Usubod, Rajas, 5% belt, usufeet,brutal.

store TP: 35+24

with 450 dly GKT: 18.2 TP/hit. (using ffxicalc since you apparently dont trust me)


18.2 * 4 = 72.8.

so unless you're getting 27.2 TP return from your namas arrow, your "5hit" does't work.


however, I never said he didnt have a /drg set. I said he doesnt like using it because it sucks in the majority of the cases, and you didnt see it because he wasnt /drg in the SS.

So there isn't a new neck with StoreTP?
Isn't a grip with StoreTP?
No other slot has StoreTP?
Not even worth the time to list shit.

You're fucking retarded dude. I was only commenting on the haste loss (hence my quote).

the only haste you are dropping is VBelt to Goading and Dusk+1 to Usukane (feet).

As in, you can keep Dusk+1 on, don't need to use Hachiman over haste gear. Try again.