Puppetmaster Changes

[Cream Soda]

Not sure about that. I have heard repeatedly from certain posters here that WS damage does not make a good DD. I can't tell you how many times I have done over 1k Stringing Pummels and then told, "oh thats nice. but <insert job> does more damage during tp."

Can't forget ws frequency, too. You can do 1k how often vs this job doing that 1k w/ less rounds to 100 tp, faster attack speed, or hasso, ect.

[pchan]

protip: most DD damage comes from ws and not tp

you are an idiot.

[Norellicus]

you are an idiot.

He isn't entirely wrong, given finite lengths of time some jobs innately will benefit more from their WS damage than from any TP damage done before/after, and if you graph it you'll even see a larger portion of your damage from those WS than from the TP gained between them (though this may be a product of bad TP gear/really nice WS gear).

As a blanket statement it's pretty swiss cheese though, especially to say "most" DD damage is WS.

[Streak]

The one situation where pup completely outshines other jobs is when I'm too lazy to change jobs 4 times in one night for 4 different events.

So I stay on pup and heal, nuke or melee, changing with each event without needing to do anything else.

Often this is handy when you start out the night lowmanning stuff until more people show up to cover the roles better, then you can shuffle around and shore up whatever part of the alliances are thin.

It's also pretty handy when half-way through an event you realize your lacking enough of role X and you can switch around and fill in to make things run more smoothly. Or the lifesaving times when our main healer has disconnected and the puppet was able to fill in.

It's like arguing that samurai is the best magic nuker because it can spam Tachi: Koki and not run out of MP. AKA, totally missing the point. A job that can change roles on the fly is well designed when it can cover them all and compete but not outshine.

[Raen Ryong]

protip: most perceived DD damage comes from ws and not tp

ftfy?

[Demosthenes11]

oh im sorry, i wasnt aware we ws at 100% immediately to tp harder. Let's all do 15 hit builds so we can tp more and ws less

edit: how many jobs do 1k damage before 100% tp.

[pchan]

oh im sorry, i wasnt aware we ws at 100% immediately to tp harder. Let's all do 15 hit builds so we can tp more and ws less

edit: how many jobs do 1k damage before 100% tp.

Those that don't suck : DDs.

[Demosthenes11]

Those that don't suck.

damn bro, i didnt know sams that don't do 200-250 a hit during tp sucked

[Raen Ryong]

SAM is just one of many DD and the one which most supports your argument

[Demosthenes11]

SAM is just one of many DD and the one which most supports your argument

any 2hander as well. im gonna disregard thf because it isnt a true DD and lolthf, but mnk is the only DD i can think of which that is not true for.

and ill throw up if someone says nin lol

[Feedmenow]

you are an idiot.

Not exactly.

MNK (and most 1-Handed weapon users) have higher TP damage than WS damage. Dual wield/Martial arts bonuses increase TP damage without affecting WS frequency as much (if at all)

2h DDs (especially if SAM or /SAM) deal more damage through WS than melee damage. Store TP and x-hit builds ramp up WS frequency without affecting TP damage at all.

Edit: WAR can be around the 50-50 range depending on food/buffs/sub, though it typically has higher WS damage (even if sometimes slightly).

[Raen Ryong]

DRK and WAR vary a lot from my experience, averaging at around 50%~ each. DRG is harder to tell cause Jump damage skews it a bit.

[Demosthenes11]

what? again, average attacks would need to be doing 200 at least (im assuming 6hit because well, the worse the DD the higher tp damage ratio will be)

[pchan]

damn bro, i didnt know sams that don't do 200-250 a hit during tp sucked

Time to realise SAM sucks, and MNK and WAR better. What is this magical mob where you average more than 1k gekko ¿ Too weak mobs prolly. Let's see level 83 MMJ, your pdif is capped at 1.85.

17% DA, 150 str, maxed overwhelm , hagun gekko gives

(75+16+0.83*0.75*150)*1.85*((1-0.17)*1.975+0.17*2.975)*1.19=827

16% DA, 100 STR,70 VIT, 10% crit, and 1.5 pdif stringing plummel gives (=merit pt situation with DiaIII, /WAR, sushi, chaos)

(5.85*0.95+2*0.16)*(32+21+10+0.83*0.35*(100+70))*( 0.90*1.5+0.10*2.5)*0.95=1004



According to your bullshit statement "only DD with ws damage >100 counts" PUP is a better DD than SAM. In before polearm.

[Demosthenes11]

seeing as how this game ends at merit mobs and I see you want to make an argument completely ignoring ws frequency, I'll leave

[Feedmenow]

what? again, average attacks would need to be doing 200 at least (im assuming 6hit because well, the worse the DD the higher tp damage ratio will be)

DA can proc on the last hit needed, or mob is at sub-optimal HP % causing either a delay in your WS or a multihit WS that kills the mob (usually ends up a waste of damage). I usually cut down on weaponskills when I hit orange/red HP and third eye is down.

Edit: Pchan, you DO know that one-hit WSes (gekko especially) get a pDIF bonus, right? I'm not sure if 1.85 is accurate or not for capped pDIF, since last I checked it would be in the 1.6-2.4 range.

[Scritch]

For example, take the Turbo Charger. It grants the automaton a nice portion of haste (5%/15%/20%/25% for 0/1/2/3 Wind Maneuvers). I typically have 1 Wind maneuver up, but I do use a Spurrer Beret and Pantin Dastanas, giving it 23% Haste with 1 Wind maneuver. Under the effects of Overdrive, the automaton gains another 25% Haste. Its accuracy gets increased to the point here I can slap up more Wind Maneuvers (depending on the target, it can even be 3) for (up to) another 25%. Tack on gear Haste to set it to 58% Haste. If BRD and WHM/RDM/SMN were to be able to haste the automaton as well, you could see how horribly broken it would be.[/B]

Okay, I'm all for supporting PUP, but really? You're really using our 2 hour to justify PUP? Maybe you're hoping they don't realize Overdrive can only be done once every 2 hours? DRK (and SMN in Astral Burn...) are the only jobs that can get away with using their 2hr to justify their entire existence.

[miokomioko]

On top of the fact that Overdrive is one of the (if not the) most useless 2hr Abilities in the game.

[Tsuko_Asura]

I must admit to being a little more than dissapointed that none of the valiant puppetmaster defenders touched my long-winded response to Psion's idiocy. Well, aside from that random guy a page back who, in all honesty, didn't actually relevantly respond to any point I made(the random tangent about pizza kinda' though me off).

[pchan]

Edit: Pchan, you DO know that one-hit WSes (gekko especially) get a pDIF bonus, right? I'm not sure if 1.85 is accurate or not for capped pDIF, since last I checked it would be in the 1.6-2.4 range.

Looks like someone doesn't know his shit, pdif caps at 1.85 on level 83 mobs for 2 handers, making gekko so awesome that theyhave to switch to monk to deal damage (since they have ego they use polearm instead, hence fail job).