WOTG Missions

[Yubar]

This is not the end of the missions, but if you mean you are dissatisfied with the final CS this patch: say whaaaa

Meeting the final Spitewarden gave me goosebumples.

Minor clarifications of Spira's spoilers:

Spoiler: show

When Cait Sith speaks to Atomos, he asks him to stop devouring our future based on Altana's wishes. Atomos (or rather the Cavernous Maw in Walk of Echoes, it was never specifically said this was Atomos-- and it speaks of Atomos in the third person so..) states that no avatar nor god can stop him from doing what he was summoned to do. Cait Sith, obviously, is aghast that an avatar would rebel against a God. This is interesting to me because it actually comes out and states that both are avatars, presumably different from celestial/terrestial

Remember Flit from TOAU? He's the Shadow Lord's personal Herald instead of Luzaf's at this time. Considering both Luzaf and Raogrimm are Odin's Knights, I wonder when Flit jumped from Raogrimm -> Luzaf, as Luzaf has been dead for a long time before we arrive, centuries iirc.

Robel-Akbel did "fail" Lilith, and not Lilisette. Lilith and Lilisette are the same person. As in, Lilith is Lilisette from a different future.

It is not the Rage which Odin seeks from Portia and Ragelise, but their love. If I remember right, Lilith goes on a tirade about the emotions the Dark Divinity values most: Rage, rancor, envy and love. Lilith also explains in her timeline, the Shadow Lord rules over the entire world. (Actually I think Cait Sith is the one who does this)

Cait Sith and Lilith also reveal to us that Lilith's world is Universe 1 per se. That is, her world came first, and our's is Altana's idealized version. In Universe 1, Lilith's reality, there are few races of Altana left alive, but they keep fighting against the Beastmen. This is where I get confused, because in Universe 1, Ragelise makes the pact with Odin during the storm of Zvahl, right about when he rescues Portia. (In our reality, Universe 2, this is where he turns down Odin's offer, if I'm remembering my dialogue right.) So that makes the current WOTG timeline a sort of Universe 3? Also, being imbued with Odin's power allows Lilith to control demons too, which is interesting that in her world Odin's armies are fighting each other eternally. (Which makes sense! Look at the Norse concept of Einherjar, lol)

And then Rocl was a demon.

Spoiler: show

So, then what is the point of Altana trying to change the future if her ideal future already exist? Also, if she is so adamant about stopping the flow of tears why doesn't she just appear in the war and stop the Shadow Lord? Seriously, all of this could be prevented if she got off her lazy ass and just went and stopped the Shadow Lord herself

[Tuna]

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So, then what is the point of Altana trying to change the future if her ideal future already exist? Also, if she is so adamant about stopping the flow of tears why doesn't she just appear in the war and stop the Shadow Lord? Seriously, all of this could be prevented if she got off her lazy ass and just went and stopped the Shadow Lord herself

You really trying to make sense of a FFXI storyline? I gave up after CoP.

[Fwahm]

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So, then what is the point of Altana trying to change the future if her ideal future already exist? Also, if she is so adamant about stopping the flow of tears why doesn't she just appear in the war and stop the Shadow Lord? Seriously, all of this could be prevented if she got off her lazy ass and just went and stopped the Shadow Lord herself

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I assume you mean Lilith, and not Altana. Lilith did not have the necessary power to defeat the Shadow Lord until she made her pact with Odin, and his pact seems to distort your mental processes in favor of the traits he most enjoys. Obviously her goal has changed.

Or, she is trying to keep from being erased, perhaps. With Atomos devouring all realities but the one that is deemed the correct one, if Lilith kills the Shadow Lord, she will vanish into Atomos's maw, never to exist again, as her reality can never come to be without the Shadow Lord winning.

[Taruchyaan]

About aquila and Haudrale..

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Anyone have any idea or speculation on who they might be in our world? We've been introduced to the galka now, who the final spitwarden is, and robel was really karaha. But as they were dying, Aquila was talking to Haudraule asking 'who do you think we are in their reality?' has made me wonder. Going mainly on appearance (well, hair really), only ones that have come to mind are Schultz and Halver. Can't really think of anyone that matches personality though, especially Aquila.

[Yubar]

Spoiler: show

I assume you mean Lilith, and not Altana. Lilith did not have the necessary power to defeat the Shadow Lord until she made her pact with Odin, and his pact seems to distort your mental processes in favor of the traits he most enjoys. Obviously her goal has changed.

Or, she is trying to keep from being erased, perhaps. With Atomos devouring all realities but the one that is deemed the correct one, if Lilith kills the Shadow Lord, she will vanish into Atomos's maw, never to exist again, as her reality can never come to be without the Shadow Lord winning.

Spoiler: show

No, I really mean Altana, remember Altana wants to stop the flow of tears. She could easily have done this by just going up to the Shadow Lord and stopping him. But, she doesn't and instead goes through unnecessary filler to do this by having some dumb prophecy that no one has heard of but from people in the future and making other people do her dirty work by hiding it with "Champions of Dawn" bullshit. To hide how shallow and useless and maybe an asshole of a goddess she really is.

ou really trying to make sense of a FFXI storyline? I gave up after CoP.

What can I say? I love pointing out plot holes and ripping the mask off these so called good "gods" who claim they love people so much, but utterly do nothing but sit on the side lines and expect players to over look this in so many JRPG.

[Fwahm]

Spoiler: show

No, I really mean Altana, remember Altana wants to stop the flow of tears. She could easily have done this by just going up to the Shadow Lord and stopping him. But, she doesn't and instead goes through unnecessary filler to do this by having some dumb prophecy that no one has heard of but from people in the future and making other people do her dirty work by hiding it with "Champions of Dawn" bullshit. To hide how shallow and useless and maybe an asshole of a goddess she really is.

.

Spoiler: show

You're assuming that she CAN do something like that. We really have no idea about what powers she has, or even if she can come to this dimension at all.

[Gustaf the Voidbringer]

What can I say? I love pointing out plot holes and ripping the mask off these so called good "gods" who claim they love people so much, but utterly do nothing but sit on the side lines and expect players to over look this in so many JRPG.

This is why I love Shin Megami Tensei. Gods are assholes.

[Gergall]

What can I say? I love pointing out plot holes and ripping the mask off these so called good "gods" who claim they love people so much, but utterly do nothing but sit on the side lines and expect players to over look this in so many JRPG.

I like to imagine that she's preoccupied with matters completely beyond our comprehension.

[Spira]

Spoiler: show

You're assuming that she CAN do something like that. We really have no idea about what powers she has, or even if she can come to this dimension at all.

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well she did divide Promathia's darkness, split the original crystal and birth the 5 races didnt she?

As Lilith does say, she is a bit of an irresponsible deity..

but at the same time, Cait Sith is born from Altana's tears. It can be said to be an extension of her will.

Also, I don't think Lilisette is gone for good. She makes up one half of the Champions of Dawn does she not? There's probably something about her that makes her not-so-digestable...

I bet she'll be back. Every character presumed to have died in the course of FFXI's story has seemed to come back anyway.
Lion.. Razfahd...

btw sorry about the Lilith/Lilisette part.. musta slipped.

[Rocl]

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The more of WOTG I complete, the more I begin to think that Altana isn't nearly as all-powerful as previously thought.

[Nevex]

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The more of WOTG I complete, the more I begin to think that Altana isn't nearly as all-powerful as previously thought.

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I'm beginning to think that Altana and Lilisette are connected, kinda like Chaos and Garland in Dissidia/FF1.

[Yugl]

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I wonder if they'll carry the whole "Multiple dimensions!" idea to the Abyssea packs. Fight mobs in the other dimensions and possibly clones. It would actually be a great way to help PTs if the NM clone mirrored your exact gear/buffs during the fight since zerging him would likely result in him zerging you. Depending on how they implement it, that would be cool.

[Gippo]

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Yeah my LS is already speculating that at some point you gotta fight some crazy bc where you fight yourself, and if you take 3 ppl in, its 3 mobs, 5 ppl, 5 mobs, etc...

and does anyone know if theres goblin footprints in beauc. glacier [s] or in xarc [s] yet or in the castle?? I'd love to watch some of those CS's again.

According to wiki, theres a footprint in the throne room [s], but thats insane to climb the castle just for that.

[Spira]

arent they always there? just check the zonelines

[Tomino]

damn how i love these kind of topics :D

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I think the role/powers of Altana are the usual ones associated to good deities : they don't really act by themselves but instead push humans on the proper path and let them do the dirty job. Kinda classic, I mean.

On the matter of why bothering "right now", I think it's because once Atomos was summoned to fix the timelines, both universes were techincally in danger of being erased. So Altana tried to fix hers (via players) and Lilith went back to protect her own.
Up until Atomos cleaning duty, there was no purpose in fighting between universes so this brings the question : WHO did actually summon Atomos?
Ok that could be Lilith, so sure she'd retain her universe she simply wanted to crush Altana one, but I feel there could still be row for a nice plot twist there.

One question about Odin blessing : who got it? I'm confused, it was the elvaan or Lilith? Or both? Raogrimm is Odin blessed for sure, and so looks Lilith, but from your spoilers I take Raguelise also is?

[Rocl]

I'm done spoilering since it's just a storyline discussion now.

Altana & Cait Sith summoned Atomos afaik
Odin entered a pact with Raogrimm previously and has just now entered one with Ragelise and Portia

The thing with Altana summoning Atomos is that she wanted him to devour Lilith's reality, not our's but Atomos don't take orders from nobody

[Riki]

Altana & Cait Sith summoned Atomos afaik

The thing with Altana summoning Atomos is that she wanted him to devour Lilith's reality, not our's but Atomos don't take orders from nobody

I think just Cait Sith screwed up. At the beginning of the storyline the Caiths mentioned something about things going out of control, leaving "doors open" and the need to fix it in one of their discussions.
Maybe Altana summoned Caith Sith to fix reality in her favor but didn't specify how to do it. The Caits then summoned Atomos and things went out of control.

[Tomino]

So basically the whole Atomos plan backfired on Altana?

And what about Rage & Portia pact, I mean, you don't see any "darkness enhanced" version of them, so maybe the purpose of the pact was to give birth to Lilith?

[Fwahm]

Except that you DO see darkness enhanced versions of them. They've got wierd tattoos all over their face at the end.

[Phoenixtail]

Edit: I caught up, and sounded stupid in retrospect.