Final Form Magian Weapons

[Malacite]

Care to elaborate on this? Do you mean performance wise or how easy it is to obtain compared to a relic?

How much more damage is 85 Amano? All I know for sure is it's Acc +30, which is damn nice but the 80 version is only 98 damage, can't be that much higher vs 107.


The key difference here, is in the WS granted and the AM. It's no freaking contest (presumably, need exact testing on Fudo's mods) that Empyrean wins. Let's assume for the sake of argument that it functions like the Mythics do, but without the 100/200/300 TP clauses, apart from possibly duration or proc rate since there's only 1 AM buff. You have the chance to deal double freaking damage, and again, if this is like Mythic AM, that means it can proc on WS... and Fudo is a 2x damage GKT ws. Even if it's mods aren't as potent as Y/G/K, that's still a double freaking damage WS.

If the AM on Empyreans stacks with these new WS, well, holy shit.

As far as obtaining these goes, that's a tough call. On the one hand, you can buy your way through a relic or low man dyna, and just get the crafting items + the northlands drops, but then you gotta grind out thousands of mobs to upgrade the bastard. With the Empyrean you're basically just NM farming which while time consuming, is by comparison far easier. Carabosse only seemed crazy at first too, until we started learning about Abyssites and Atma. So really, with a good LS that has properly buffed members (everyone has both Lunar abyssites, good Atma and Ancient Abyssites) you can actually plow through these NMs quite easily.

[FailureMidgard]

How much more damage is 85 Amano? All I know for sure is it's Acc +30, which is damn nice but the 80 version is only 98 damage, can't be that much higher vs 107.


The key difference here, is in the WS granted and the AM. It's no freaking contest (presumably, need exact testing on Fudo's mods) that Empyrean wins. Let's assume for the sake of argument that it functions like the Mythics do, but without the 100/200/300 TP clauses, apart from possibly duration or proc rate since there's only 1 AM buff. You have the chance to deal double freaking damage, and again, if this is like Mythic AM, that means it can proc on WS... and Fudo is a 2x damage GKT ws. Even if it's mods aren't as potent as Y/G/K, that's still a double freaking damage WS.

If the AM on Empyreans stacks with these new WS, well, holy shit.

Am I missing something other than the description that people are orgasming over? The "double damage" doesn't mean shit. If its 1.0 fTP and does double damage, you may as well call it a 2.0 fTP modifier. Kaiten has 3.0. In other words, pretend it says "Does Triple Damage".

To clarify - I'm not saying Kaiten will be better for sure, I'm saying basing shit off a description is dumb, and I've still seen no testing or anything on Fudo. But this double damage shit is really -not- impressive.

[Kalasin]

The key difference here, is in the WS granted and the AM. It's no freaking contest (presumably, need exact testing on Fudo's mods) that Empyrean wins. Let's assume for the sake of argument that it functions like the Mythics do, but without the 100/200/300 TP clauses, apart from possibly duration or proc rate since there's only 1 AM buff. You have the chance to deal double freaking damage, and again, if this is like Mythic AM, that means it can proc on WS... and Fudo is a 2x damage GKT ws. Even if it's mods aren't as potent as Y/G/K, that's still a double freaking damage WS.

If the AM on Empyreans stacks with these new WS, well, holy shit.

As far as obtaining these goes, that's a tough call. On the one hand, you can buy your way through a relic or low man dyna, and just get the crafting items + the northlands drops, but then you gotta grind out thousands of mobs to upgrade the bastard. With the Empyrean you're basically just NM farming which while time consuming, is by comparison far easier. Carabosse only seemed crazy at first too, until we started learning about Abyssites and Atma. So really, with a good LS that has properly buffed members (everyone has both Lunar abyssites, good Atma and Ancient Abyssites) you can actually plow through these NMs quite easily.

But if your if's don't work like that and assume the mythics are a completely different weapon (who would have thought that, relics dont work like mythics either), then all of what you said is wrong, because it won't proc on WS. Double damage, if it's the same proc rate as relic rates, it's not even as good as you think because you have to WS for it to activate, relics always have it on. I honestly don't know why people are going all over new stuff with their "If this is right and this and if we do this it's awesome(but if it's wrong I'm gonna go back to my corner)". Just wait for the fucking tests, my god.

How much more damage is 85 Amano? All I know for sure is it's Acc +30, which is damn nice but the 80 version is only 98 damage, can't be that much higher vs 107.

It's 108 on Amano.

[Nightmarelord]

inb4 dec update: Relic weapons shall now proc x2 ~x3.5 dmg on all abilities INCLUDING WS.

[ronin sparthos]

Oh god yes. It looks awesome and doesn't completely suck?! brb walk of echoes (If people on Shiva ever did it. ;

Did you happen to notice if bullet damage factored? I know it doesn't for Leaden.

Shooting briefly with Steel and then all Bronze, I think it's safe to say bullet damage does not factor just like Leaden Salute.

[Fereydoon]

Sweet, thanks. Off to kill NM's/do WoE!

[lolwut]

Shooting briefly with Steel and then all Bronze, I think it's safe to say bullet damage does not factor just like Leaden Salute.

Sorry to bombard you with questions, but I'm working on this weapon as well (25% coins done, everything else ready to go) so I'm curious.

Do you happen to have screen shots of your dmg and ws gear? You said you did 1300+, was that average dmg or spikes? How did it compare to your Slug dmg using the same weapon?

[Malacite]

Yeah but that's why I said "For the sake of argument" since we have no concrete info.

[ronin sparthos]

Sorry to bombard you with questions, but I'm working on this weapon as well (25% coins done, everything else ready to go) so I'm curious.

Do you happen to have screen shots of your dmg and ws gear? You said you did 1300+, was that average dmg or spikes? How did it compare to your Slug dmg using the same weapon?

To answer you in detail, my gear for Leaden/Wildfire are as follows:

Joy/xx/Bedlam+1/Bronze
AF+1/Light Gorget/Moldy/Novio
ACP(MAB+4)/Skadi/Omega/Breeze
Forban/Moblin Sash(MACC/MAB+2)/Denali/Enkidu's

15 WS each on Amuckatrice with Wizards Roll:

Spoiler: show

Leaden Salute
956
913
983
972
976
993
958
982
969
1012
975
996
1025
951

Wildfire
1681
1449
1593
1452
720
1366
1461
1502
1495
1495
1644
1488
1488
1442
1449

15 WS on Amuckatrice with Wizards and Ascetic's Drink:

Spoiler: show

Wildfire
1757
1765
1757
1633
1720
1727
1720
1482
839
1757
1765
1718
1718
1575
1710

Leaden Salute
1153
1095
1081
1034
1099
1050
1066
1155
1051
1112

Only did 10 Leadens cause the party broke Q.Q

Anywho, my average Slug damage was around 1050 dmg using a setup of:

Joy/XX/Bedlam+1/Steel
AF+1/Gorget/Bushi/Triumph
Commodore/Crimson/Arewe/Rajas
Amemet+1/Buccaneer/Skadi/Skadi

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...dlamSlugWS.jpg

Some screens of Wildfire DMG:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...dfireAmuk2.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...ldfireAmuk.jpg

I really should do more Slug Shots going all out but as luck would have it, i am usually in a mage party which means i end up /RDM instead of something like /WAR which would benefit Slug more.

As stated before, the enmity cut on using the WS increases with TP which allows you to sneak in some high damage Wildfires without having attention immediately turn onto you - a neat trick. But overall it amounts to a beefier fire elemental Leaden.

If the other Empyreal WS are anywhere near as good as this one, the max damage paths could be very competitive with elemental weapons.

[lolwut]

Very detailed, thank you very much. I've been excited for this weapon, and it's awesome to have someone take the time to fully test it out and post results.

[Niusha]

i'm 29/30 on coins for hiradennotachi +1 (GK) but still need a couple VNM kills, hopefully will be able to finish and get some data posted in the next few days

[Niusha]

welp, finished Hiradennotachi +1. i gotta say this is a huge increase over hagun and amano. i'm averaging about 80% more damage on weapon skills than i did when i was using hagun + gekko. testing gekko on both GK, i'd say hagun has a slight edge, but it's pretty damn close. either way, fudo blows it out of the water. the SC properties are light/distortion so you can fudo > fudo for light, or throw a fudo on top of a light SC for another light. snow, breeze, and light gorgets should all work. my record as of now is a 3842 sneak attack + fudo on a rock murex in abyssea-attohwa. food and 2x atma buffs (violet and strongarm) but no cor or brd...

[Eole]

Give us some Parses when you have time

[chazzyphizzle]

You can make double light with tachi: fudo with the non-empyreal weapon?

[Niusha]

You can make double light with tachi: fudo with the non-empyreal weapon?

yes

[chazzyphizzle]

what the fuck

[Amok]

welp, finished Hiradennotachi +1. i gotta say this is a huge increase over hagun and amano. i'm averaging about 80% more damage on weapon skills than i did when i was using hagun + gekko. testing gekko on both GK, i'd say hagun has a slight edge, but it's pretty damn close. either way, fudo blows it out of the water. the SC properties are light/distortion so you can fudo > fudo for light, or throw a fudo on top of a light SC for another light. snow, breeze, and light gorgets should all work. my record as of now is a 3842 sneak attack + fudo on a rock murex in abyssea-attohwa. food and 2x atma buffs (violet and strongarm) but no cor or brd...

Oh damn. Looks like I made a sport out of picking wrong trials to do. Do you get the impression it has an attack/pdif bonus at all?

[Niusha]

Oh damn. Looks like I made a sport out of picking wrong trials to do. Do you get the impression it has an attack/pdif bonus at all?

i'm guessing no, or if it does, it's pretty small. the ws description says "Deals double damage." but it doesn't add up to 200% of what i would do with a gekko or even a yuki...

[Byrthnoth]

If deals double damage is actually true and it they all have decent mods, these are likely the best weapons and weaponskills in ideal situations for all the jobs that can use them by a huge amount, especially on old content.

When I saw "Deals Double Damage" I blew it off like it was Viper Bite or something. The Great Axe is probably a freaking beast. 2-hit WS, 2 chances for DA, double damage, and we break 999 attack solo buffing these days.

For the Fudo user, would you mind posting your max damage on level 0 mobs at 100TP without gear on (and your stats) and then post it again with WS gear on (and your stats?) A good way to tell it is your max damage is to go until you get the same value twice.

[Nameless]

I think before we all go crazy about the empyreal WS, we need to sit back and remember that the cap is going to be 99 in the end, and somewhere down the road, there is going to be another set of new WS or two (who knows if they are going to be good or not, but chances are that they will be). And as good as those empyreal WSs are, I doubt they make up for the short coming of the base weapon itself. Other than the actual empyreal weapons, the gimp version are all ranked right there among the weakest compare to the like of STP, DA, STR ATT, OAT etc. So let's see some parses first before we all jump ship.