Final Form Magian Weapons

[Byrthnoth]

And actually, now that I look at the other WSs I'm less convinced. For instance, giving NIN a 1-hit WS looks fail. Giving Monk a 4-hit WS will only be good if the mods are good. Still, the fact that we have a WS out-doing Slugshot and another out-doing Gekko is promising.

Ukko's Fury is probably the best GA WS assuming it's 2-hit, but until we know any of these WSs are more than 1-hit I'm going to moderate my enthusiasm (recall relic WSs). Ukko's Fury is aiming low, which is why I feel it's probably better than the alternatives. GA does awesome damage, but Raging Rush and King's justice are kind of weak relative to, for instance, Drakesbane.

[ronin sparthos]

And actually, now that I look at the other WSs I'm less convinced. For instance, giving NIN a 1-hit WS looks fail. Giving Monk a 4-hit WS will only be good if the mods are good. Still, the fact that we have a WS out-doing Slugshot and another out-doing Gekko is promising.

Ukko's Fury is probably the best GA WS assuming it's 2-hit, but until we know any of these WSs are more than 1-hit I'm going to moderate my enthusiasm (recall relic WSs). Ukko's Fury is aiming low, which is why I feel it's probably better than the alternatives. GA does awesome damage, but Raging Rush and King's justice are kind of weak relative to, for instance, Drakesbane.

Given the description of the weaponskill, Blade: Hi deals quadruple damage and has the chance to crit. That sounds better than pretty much any WS NIN has atm. One of ninjas biggest complaints is that they did not have a strong one-hit WS (gekko/spinning slash tier) which is something Hi could be.

Jishnu's Radiance uses 3 pieces of ammo and has a chance to crit, which sounds better than TP merely affecting accuracy. It also has no elemental affinity which bodes well for RNG since Wildfire is so skewed in Corsairs favor.

The only suspect looking weaponskills are Cloudsplitter which looks tailored for BST (Primal Rend improvement likely) and Rudra's Storm which is interesting since it does not appear to be wind-based though the weaponskill itself does. I'll just assume the staff/club WS are impractical and arent worth a mage meleeing at any reasonable event.

[Byrthnoth]

Where did you find the descriptions? I looked for them but couldn't track them down. The staff WS probably isn't practical, but if I had to guess it looks a lot like either AoE healing or AoE MP recovery.

[ronin sparthos]

Pririan had them posted in the old .DATmine thread:

Victory Smite - Delivers a fourfold attack. Chance of critical hit varies with TP. Verethragna: Aftermath.
Rudra's Storm - Deals triple damage and weighs target down. Damage varies with TP. Twashtar: Aftermath.
Torcleaver - Deals triple damage. Damage varies with TP. Caladbolg: Aftermath.
Cloudsplitter - Deals lightning elemental damage. Damage varies with TP. Farsha: Aftermath.
Ukko's Fury - Delivers a twofold attack that slows target. Chance of critical hit varies with TP. Ukonvasara: Aftermath.
Quietus - Delivers a triple damage attack that ignores target's defense. Amount ignored varies with TP. Redemption: Aftermath.
Camlann's Torment - Delivers a triple damage attack that ignores target's defense. Amount ignored varies with TP. Rhongomiant: Aftermath.
Blade: Hi - Deals quadruple damage. Chance of critical hit varies with TP. Kannagi: Aftermath.
Tachi: Fudo - Deals double damage. Damage varies with TP. Masamune: Aftermath.
Dagan - Restores HP and MP. Amount restored varies with TP. Gambanteinn: Aftermath.
Myrkr - Restores MP and removes status ailments. Amount of MP restored varies with TP. Hvergelmir: Aftermath.
Jishnu's Radiance - Delivers a threefold attack, ammunition permitting. Chance of critical hit varies with TP. Gandiva: Aftermath.
Wildfire - Deals fire elemental damage. Enmity generation varies with TP. Armageddon: Aftermath.
Chant du Cygne - Delivers a threefold attack. Chance of critical hit varies with TP. Almace: Aftermath.

[FailureMidgard]

welp, finished Hiradennotachi +1. i gotta say this is a huge increase over hagun and amano. i'm averaging about 80% more damage on weapon skills than i did when i was using hagun + gekko. testing gekko on both GK, i'd say hagun has a slight edge, but it's pretty damn close. either way, fudo blows it out of the water. the SC properties are light/distortion so you can fudo > fudo for light, or throw a fudo on top of a light SC for another light. snow, breeze, and light gorgets should all work. my record as of now is a 3842 sneak attack + fudo on a rock murex in abyssea-attohwa. food and 2x atma buffs (violet and strongarm) but no cor or brd...

Any chance you can go do 100 WSes somewhere random and parse it? Like S. Gustaberg or something? Don't even care if you do it with or without gear atm, just be consistent, get a decent # of data points and post a parse?

[Nameless]

From looking at the description, ninja one looks like money lol. One hit would be great for ninja since it pretty much auto caps your accuracy, and it seems to be blade jin +1 without the need of worrying about missing hits.

Scythe and Polearm look good too, both are much needed for both jobs in term of one hit high damage WS that is good for harder mobs (I am guessing instead of a ratio bonus, you get ignore defense, which is good enough). Wheeling thrust is similar but has very bad ftp, so I am betting that this will have a least a 3.0 ftp if not higher. This is a god sent for scythe users.

GS looks great, Tachi:Fudo +1 already. Sexy WS as always for the GS line.

GA one is looks less impressive, seems like a RR -1 or +1 to me depends on the modifier. The second hit ftp will always be 1.0 which limits its potential. You either want it to be one hit high ftp or multiple hit with alot of hits to add up. The GA one is neither. But slow could be devastating, tho for those who love retaliation for tp gain, slow might not be a great idea. Then again, RR and KJ are two of the strongest WSs there is so...

Overall, it looks like Fudo is actually the weakest. But who knows, it might have the usual 75% STR modifier to boost its damage.

[Eleven19]

Kidding me? Fudo can continue light chains?

Bah. Its leaving a bad taste in my mouth, but... its so cool looking. Ughhh. It makes me feel dirty. We'll see what happens in the next few updates.

Slightly OT, but how is Metsu dmg wise? Safe to say that the NIN weapon will easily overpower the relic in terms of WS damage?

[Kirschy]

Tachi: Fudo sounds fairly cool~ If you can do a few naked SA Fudo's on lv 1 mobs outside a starter town, most of the people here can prob give you a lot of basics on the WS mods. ~4-5 SA-WS naked, and about 4-5 SA-WS /w just gorget equipped should be enough to estimate the fTP multiplier and estimate your base damage and increase from secondary mods~

[ccl]

Just did some SA tachi fudo naked outside of windurst on Bumblebee.
Here are the numbers:


1787 @116 tp
1669 @104 tp
1766 @104 tp
1756 @114 tp
1802 @104 tp

And here some number with Snow Gorget:

1817 @104tp
1834 @100tp (sekkakoki)
1829 @ 104 tp
1862 @ 104 tp



I can add more info if they are needed like stat and do more test with gear on.

[Byrthnoth]

The NIN WS is probably going to be better than Jin, but not dramatically so. Even with 1 hit WSs on NIN, you still have an off-hand that isn't Acc capped, not to mention (I think?) two chances to DA.

Compared to Drakesbane, Raging Rush and King's Justice are kind of crap. Drakesbane is piercing damage, 50% STR mod, 4 hits, and can crit. Ukko's Fury wouldn't need to be super awesome to beat Raging Rush and King's Justice, especially because it can crit. >2.5 fTP Ukko's vs. 3.5 fTP Raging. Hopefully Ukko's will have useful skillchain properties too.

It's going to come down to mods and crap, but we could be looking at some serious competition for relics and mythics if the other weaponskills are comparable to the two posted so far. Beating Sidewinder and Gekko isn't exactly no big deal.

PS. Looks like about 3.0 fTP first hit.

103 base, 19 fSTR cap (which you're probably barely hitting) = 122 damage

Your WS damage indicates about 190 base damage, meaning you're getting about 68-70ish from mods. What race are you, and what is your base strength (5/5 merits?) Mind doing another set of 5 with your STR gear on?

[hexagram23]

but Raging Rush and King's justice are kind of weak relative to, for instance, Drakesbane.

Huh? You either hang around some terrible WARs, or EXP solely on birds.

[Nightfyre]

The job kind of compensates for the otherwise lackluster WS. Zerk and DA are nice like that. If we look solely at fTP and mods (as Byrthnoth was), Drakes shits all over RR.

[FailureMidgard]

Just did some SA tachi fudo naked outside of windurst on Bumblebee.
Here are the numbers:


1787 @116 tp
1669 @104 tp
1766 @104 tp
1756 @114 tp
1802 @104 tp

And here some number with Snow Gorget:

1817 @104tp
1834 @100tp (sekkakoki)
1829 @ 104 tp
1862 @ 104 tp



I can add more info if they are needed like stat and do more test with gear on.

Puts it around ~1.9 fTP (2.0 is within reason, but seems unlikely at the moment).

[Byrthnoth]

Huh? You either hang around some terrible WARs, or EXP solely on birds.

50% STR, it can crit, it's 4 hits base, and it's piercing damage. King's Justice and Raging Rush made a beautiful little polearm baby. Even if you knock off 15% STR to make up for the difference in polearm vs. GA base damage, it's still a Raging Rush with an extra hit.

I am a WAR, I know we do good damage. We owe our ridiculous JAs and gear selection options for that though. Our Weaponskills do good damage, but if you look at the mods and everything, they aren't that impressive relative to Drakes. In high buff situations, I'd even favor Guillotine over our WSs (add STR mod for our lower base damage, convert the 25% MND to STR, you have a 4-hit King's Justice).

PS. How did you figure that out Failure? I took a 60 damage max-damage increase and said it was .1 fTP, 1802/60 = 30
Edit: Hmm.. Double Damage. Assuming it actually doubles damage, my method gives wonky results.

[FailureMidgard]

PS. How did you figure that out Failure? I took a 60 damage max-damage increase and said it was .1 fTP, 1802/60 = 30
Edit: Hmm.. Double Damage. Assuming it actually doubles damage, my method gives wonky results.

I averaged the 3 104TP hits for each group:

No Gorget: 1745
w/ Gorget: 1836

Then call n the base fTP and assume pdif and any random multipliers are constant (like a 2x dmg):
Base*n = 1745
Base*(n+.1) = 1836
or
1745/n = 1836/(n+.1)
1745(n+.1) = 1836n
1745n + 174.5 = 1836n
174.5 = 91n
n=174.5/91 = 1.918

That being said, assuming he was actually naked, it does look like it's actually doing 2x damage.

[Nameless]

2.0 actually sounds about right as 0.1 added about 5% of damage from the look of it. That left out about 160 from modifier assuming 120 D... could this WS be 200% str mod... We shall see when he does it with all his STR gears on, it should have about a 1000 damage difference assuming you have 80+ str from gears.

PS: assuming 75% STR modifier like most other GK WS, it would leave out about 105 unaccounted for base damage, which can very well be the double damage, which similar to how relic triple damage proc, is using the weapon's base damage x 2 or 3. We will see after his str test. In this case, it would be a 400 damage increase.

Edit: if it were a 200% str mod, it would be 1k damage increase, made a mistake on the calculation... very unlikely that's the case....

[Byrthnoth]

Also, you should probably discount the 1600s one as an outlier. Low pdif results (below 3) are much less frequent in these kinds of tests, an that definitely looks like one.

[FailureMidgard]

Also, you should probably discount the 1600s one as an outlier. Low pdif results (below 3) are much less frequent in these kinds of tests, an that definitely looks like one.

There's no reason to think that'd give a more accurate answer when our sample size is 3, but that'd put it at 3.3-3.4 fTP...really just need more data points.

Even @ 1.9 it seems to destroy Kaiten...

[Nameless]

I can't image how sick the scythe one is then....

[FailureMidgard]

Well, based on quick napkin math, in any situation that you don't need the +30 accuracy from Amano, Hiradennotachi +1 is slightly better than Amano85. If you can make use of the 30 accuracy from Amano, then there's no real contest (Amano would beat Hira+1 in that situation)...so glad I wasted some 120+ hours on this.