Final Form Magian Weapons

[FailureMidgard]

Its so funny that you posted that after Kirshy wrote almost the same numbers I did (her were higher becouse I took 200dex overall she took 220).

Failure seriously why can't you just calc yourself ? I know you can ...

Kirshy already wrote the math but for pure fun I will do it again:
Assuming 200 dex in abyssea (Thats probably very low with RR atma and cruor+30)
(200*0.85*0.6)+95(Gandiva)+41(antlion)+36(capped fstr2)=274
3hits no crits capped att - 3.75(ftp)*274*3(pdif)=3080(no bonus dmg from RR cuz no crits)
3hits all crits capped att - 3.75*274*3.75*1.3(bonus from RR to crits) = 5009

I dont remember 2nd WS I "vastly over-exaggerated" :/

I've already had this discussion with her, and she is over-exaggerating and trying to find the absolute max possible. You're not going to walk in and see these numbers all the time. For one, with the dex listed, she's borderline not even fSTR capped, and almost assuredly not attack capped without crazy attack buffs (note her test with 2hr Minuets, Berserk, and Red Curry still didn't cap her attack...), AND she's counting Flashy Shot for no level correction. You realize that this isn't realistic right? It's like me calculating my Fudo damage vs the Corse with Holy Circle, a berserkers tonic, tons of buffs, and 300 TP...it's just not really a relevant number. Can you hit 5k in a perfect scenario? Sure. Are you going to walk into Abyssea and pound out 5ks constantly? Hell no.

Furthermore, I highly doubt +60 dex will be an ideal set, for reasons listed above...so assuming that, while assuming capped fSTR and capped pdif is meh, EVEN IN ABYSSEA. A lot of people here seem to think they are permanently attack capped,when really you aren't...

[Atoreis]

I've already had this discussion with her, and she is over-exaggerating and trying to find the absolute max possible. You're not going to walk in and see these numbers all the time. For one, with the dex listed, she's borderline not even fSTR capped, and almost assuredly not attack capped without crazy attack buffs (note her test with 2hr Minuets, Berserk, and Red Curry still didn't cap her attack...), AND she's counting Flashy Shot for no level correction. You realize that this isn't realistic right? It's like me calculating my Fudo damage vs the Corse with Holy Circle, a berserkers tonic, tons of buffs, and 300 TP...it's just not really a relevant number. Can you hit 5k in a perfect scenario? Sure. Are you going to walk into Abyssea and pound out 5ks constantly? Hell no.

Furthermore, I highly doubt +60 dex will be an ideal set, for reasons listed above...so assuming that, while assuming capped fSTR and capped pdif is meh, EVEN IN ABYSSEA. A lot of people here seem to think they are permanently attack capped,when really you aren't...

Ok, maybe you are right I should put more details there.
Lets try to find some realistic numbers Using this set -> http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/110266
Equip:STR+17 DEX+61 Racc+51 Ratt+30 (not counting main+sub cuz idk if there is need of Mekki for lower xHit) Anwig STR4 AGI4 WSacc+15 WSdmg+2%
Base about: STR 77 DEX 72
Atmas: Bria +40STR +30ratt(+50 with str) RR +50DEX
Cruor: +30 dex +30STR(+15ratt)
Food: Pot-au-feu +1 - str+4 ratt+? racc+?
Overall: 169STR 213DEX +97ratt(+food+base) +53(+food+base)
WS crit rate: Idk base at 100TP but i assume at least 10%+20%from dDEX+4%merit+50%atma=84%
I will do it for three Pdif 2.5 2.0 and 1.0 ( lets say first for exp mobs with buffs and w/o buffs and 3rd for nms) and 169STR should be at least 30 Fstr2. Bonus to crits will be 35% from RR + Loki's


EDIT: Actually, I think I made a mistake there it should be 0.84*0.84*0.84 which is about 60% for all 3 hits crit so this is right math (I think :D ) :

(213*0.85*0.6)+95+41+30 = 274

Pdif 1.0 : ((274*1*3.75*40)+(274*1.25*3.75*1.35*60))/100 = 1490
Pdif 2.0 : ((274*2*3.75*40)+(274*2.5*3.75*1.35*60))/100 = 2980
Pdif 2.5 : ((274*2.5*3.75*40)+(274*3.125*3.75*1.35*60))/100 = 3725


Pdif 1.0 avg 1519 noCrits 1075 allCrits 1814
Pdif 2.0 avg 3039 noCrits 2151 allCrits 3631
Pdif 2.5 avg 3799 noCrits 2688 allCrits 4539

[FailureMidgard]

Ok, maybe you are right I should put more details there.
Lets try to find some realistic numbers Using this set -> http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/110266
Equip:STR+17 DEX+61 Racc+51 Ratt+30 (not counting main+sub cuz idk if there is need of Mekki for lower xHit) Anwig STR4 AGI4 WSacc+15 WSdmg+2%
Base about: STR 77 DEX 72
Atmas: Bria +40STR +30ratt(+50 with str) RR +50DEX
Cruor: +30 dex +30STR(+15ratt)
Food: Pot-au-feu +1 - str+4 ratt+? racc+?
Overall: 169STR 213DEX +97ratt(+food+base) +53(+food+base)
WS crit rate: Idk base at 100TP but i assume at least 10%+20%from dDEX+4%merit+50%atma=84%
I will do it for three Pdif 2.5 2.0 and 1.0 ( lets say first for exp mobs with buffs and w/o buffs and 3rd for nms) and 169STR should be at least 30 Fstr2. Bonus to crits will be 35% from RR + Loki's


EDIT: Actually, I think I made a mistake there it should be 0.84*0.84*0.84 which is about 60% for all 3 hits crit so this is right math (I think :D ) :

(213*0.85*0.6)+95+41+30 = 274

Pdif 1.0 : ((274*1*3.75*40)+(274*1.25*3.75*1.35*60))/100 = 1490
Pdif 2.0 : ((274*2*3.75*40)+(274*2.5*3.75*1.35*60))/100 = 2980
Pdif 2.5 : ((274*2.5*3.75*40)+(274*3.125*3.75*1.35*60))/100 = 3725


Pdif 1.0 avg 1519 noCrits 1075 allCrits 1814
Pdif 2.0 avg 3039 noCrits 2151 allCrits 3631
Pdif 2.5 avg 3799 noCrits 2688 allCrits 4539

Atma is generally accepted to be +30% crit rate afaik. dDex crit rate increase caps at +15%, meaning you're overestimating your crit rate by 25%, and should be happy with a ~60% crit rate (22% chance to crit all 3). On the plus side, you should be fSTR capping with the gearset you listed...however you have +50 acc and +22 rattack. Just based on what I've seen on my sam, and the fact that ranged is harder to cap attack on, I think you're still vastly over-estimating your pdif vs exp mobs in new Abyssea zones. Greater Colibri had 327 defense, meaning a 2.4 pdif was at 785 attack. These are now higher level, and I'd say you need 850 attack at least to hit 2.4...I don't see your set with +22 attack even coming near that, but let's see:
324 skill + 16 merits = 340 attack.
169 str = 85 attack.
22attk +30 briareus = 52
Total: 477
No idea how much attack Pot gives? I'd assume ~80 cap? 10 from /warrior JT, Total: 567.
Let's say you always have a corsair w/ a drk in party getting a 9 on chaos, for +27% attack (+153), up to 720. Berserk then puts you at 900 even? Now, I'm not entirely sure on exact attack needed, but with Berserk up and a +27% chaos roll you still aren't even capping attack (for that matter, you haven't even capped attack vs Greater Colibri yet after having Abyssea buffs, a pretty solid cor roll, food and berserk). Also, there's probably a .2 level correction penalty on pdif vs exp mobs. Anyway, if these were greater colibri + level correction penalty, you'd be sitting at about 2.55 pdif. Since these mobs are actually at least 10 levels over that, I believe that's a bare minimum of +50 defense, putting them at 377, 900/377-.2 = 2.18 pdif.

Really, I think with berserk and chaos roll and food, that's much more close to accurate vs normal mobs. You can talk about dia and shit all you want...I dunno, maybe me and the people I play with are just too lazy, but putting dia on every mob when it dies in ~10sec doesn't seem worth the hassle (we obv dia nms, even the ones that surive only 30-45sec). Even IF you are getting dia2 on every mob, you're still at a 2.45 pdif at best.

This isn't exact math, I apologize for anywhere it's wrong, but it's far closer than the numbers you are pulling. You are not hitting the pdif you are claiming unless you have bard+cor+berserk up (and berserk isn't even up all the time...not to mention the fact it may not even be the best sj choice? no idea tbh), and I highly doubt your set is even optimal (outside of exaggerating attack and assuming attack cap when not attack capped). I also am not convinced you are accuracy capped on anything higher than exp mobs (326 from skill, 48 agi, 48 trait, 25 gear = 447, +~63 food we'll say is 510). Again, using Greater Colibri+10 lvls, that'd require 457, so you're capping accuracy vs exp mobs pretty easily (as long as you use pot), but I know for a fact that ~530 doesn't cap vs some nms (Amano+Acc gear with meat). That being said, could always have a 2nd set for that, but ignoring it's existence entirely is still an over-exaggeration.

[Kukuk]

Do ppl forget ranger has Velocity shot?

[Atoreis]

Atma is generally accepted to be +30% crit rate afaik. dDex crit rate increase caps at +15%, meaning you're overestimating your crit rate by 25%, and should be happy with a ~60% crit rate (22% chance to crit all 3). On the plus side, you should be fSTR capping with the gearset you listed...however you have +50 acc and +22 rattack. Just based on what I've seen on my sam, and the fact that ranged is harder to cap attack on, I think you're still vastly over-estimating your pdif vs exp mobs in new Abyssea zones. Greater Colibri had 327 defense, meaning a 2.4 pdif was at 785 attack. These are now higher level, and I'd say you need 850 attack at least to hit 2.4...I don't see your set with +22 attack even coming near that, but let's see:
324 skill + 16 merits = 340 attack.
169 str = 85 attack.
22attk +30 briareus = 52
Total: 477
No idea how much attack Pot gives? I'd assume ~80 cap? 10 from /warrior JT, Total: 567.
Let's say you always have a corsair w/ a drk in party getting a 9 on chaos, for +27% attack (+153), up to 720. Berserk then puts you at 900 even? Now, I'm not entirely sure on exact attack needed, but with Berserk up and a +27% chaos roll you still aren't even capping attack (for that matter, you haven't even capped attack vs Greater Colibri yet after having Abyssea buffs, a pretty solid cor roll, food and berserk). Also, there's probably a .2 level correction penalty on pdif vs exp mobs. Anyway, if these were greater colibri + level correction penalty, you'd be sitting at about 2.55 pdif. Since these mobs are actually at least 10 levels over that, I believe that's a bare minimum of +50 defense, putting them at 377, 900/377-.2 = 2.18 pdif.

Really, I think with berserk and chaos roll and food, that's much more close to accurate vs normal mobs. You can talk about dia and shit all you want...I dunno, maybe me and the people I play with are just too lazy, but putting dia on every mob when it dies in ~10sec doesn't seem worth the hassle (we obv dia nms, even the ones that surive only 30-45sec). Even IF you are getting dia2 on every mob, you're still at a 2.45 pdif at best.

This isn't exact math, I apologize for anywhere it's wrong, but it's far closer than the numbers you are pulling. You are not hitting the pdif you are claiming unless you have bard+cor+berserk up (and berserk isn't even up all the time...not to mention the fact it may not even be the best sj choice? no idea tbh), and I highly doubt your set is even optimal (outside of exaggerating attack and assuming attack cap when not attack capped). I also am not convinced you are accuracy capped on anything higher than exp mobs (326 from skill, 48 agi, 48 trait, 25 gear = 447, +~63 food we'll say is 510). Again, using Greater Colibri+10 lvls, that'd require 457, so you're capping accuracy vs exp mobs pretty easily (as long as you use pot), but I know for a fact that ~530 doesn't cap vs some nms (Amano+Acc gear with meat). That being said, could always have a 2nd set for that, but ignoring it's existence entirely is still an over-exaggeration.

I dont realy want to argue about job I dont really know and WS I dont really care
One thing bother me tho. If RR is only +30% I have some massive luck on Jins becouse like 95% of them are very close in dmg (besides the one with missed hits or double attacks). It looks like 95% of them crits all 3 hits so RR gives more then 30% or base crit chance on Jin is around 30% on 100 tp. Ascetic is similar and maybe 1 of 20 is no crit.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Shove it up your ass already. Fucking ego trip much?

How do you add ppl to ignore list, as an aside? Also, I'd imagine that U.S. wouldn't work with a 3-hit WS. But here's a complementary kleenex for anyone who wants to test it out with an Aeolus Arrow.
EDIT: Nvm figured it out lol. Christ what an asshat...

I think its about time you accepted these forums just aren't for you. Cry somewhere else.

[nivlakian]

I dont realy want to argue about job I dont really know and WS I dont really care
One thing bother me tho. If RR is only +30% I have some massive luck on Jins becouse like 95% of them are very close in dmg (besides the one with missed hits or double attacks). It looks like 95% of them crits all 3 hits so RR gives more then 30% or base crit chance on Jin is around 30% on 100 tp. Ascetic is similar and maybe 1 of 20 is no crit.

When I've parsed during abyssea, anyone with razed ruins always has 54% crit rate (within +/- 1% due to sample size/probabality) if they have on no other +crit% gear.

I believe from the crit rate testing thread, it's been established that there's 5% base crit rate, a max of +15% from dDex and 4% from merits. This gets to 24% leaving the other 30% to be filled by the atma's crit rate. This also seems to fit in with the pattern of several atma giving 10/30/50 bonuses for minor/major/superior.

[Kirschy]

I dont realy want to argue about job I dont really know and WS I dont really care
One thing bother me tho. If RR is only +30% I have some massive luck on Jins becouse like 95% of them are very close in dmg (besides the one with missed hits or double attacks). It looks like 95% of them crits all 3 hits so RR gives more then 30% or base crit chance on Jin is around 30% on 100 tp. Ascetic is similar and maybe 1 of 20 is no crit.

Think you're forgetting to factor in that RR atma gives 50 DEX which helps up your crit rate. Also you're probably not counting Innin which should on average add another ~10-15% to your crit rate, depending on how often you're behind the mob. Add in items like JSE cape, and you're gonna be around 70% or more crit rate~

[Snprphnx]

Think you're forgetting to factor in that RR atma gives 50 DEX which helps up your crit rate. Also you're probably not counting Innin which should on average add another ~10-15% to your crit rate, depending on how often you're behind the mob. Add in items like JSE cape, and you're gonna be around 70% or more crit rate~

thats about right. a nin in my shell was getting ~63% when we got the atma. He was missing some crit+ items at the time too, like the JSE cape and neck.

[Atoreis]

Think you're forgetting to factor in that RR atma gives 50 DEX which helps up your crit rate. Also you're probably not counting Innin which should on average add another ~10-15% to your crit rate, depending on how often you're behind the mob. Add in items like JSE cape, and you're gonna be around 70% or more crit rate~

Im almost never on Innin cuz I'm mostly duoing with friend nin+rdm and im not talking about normal crits but Jins. They are in 90% 3 crits.

[Kirschy]

I think you might be overstating your jin crit rate. It's fairly hard to assess how many hits in a 3+1 hit ws actualli crit. Esp when you count VV atma giving 2tp/tic to screw /w tp returns, DA from /war and VV + atma + brutal being 25%, etc...

I went to run a quick SS test to confirm it's crit damage+. Same testing proceedures as before but used Stout Arm this time since it gives STR/R Attack. Capped attack easily, but w/o RR getting a crit was annoying -_-. Anyways it's 30% same as RR~
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/9245/ssatma.png

SS+RR should give a combined 60% boost to crits. When I get the chance I'll try to confirm the atma boosts are additive~ Also worth noting, I parsed my H2H trials in Abyssea today. RR + SS atma gave me ~54% crit rate (Confirming the 30% boost from RR.)

[vagus]

SS+RR should give a combined 60% boost to crits.

Disgusting.

[Byrthnoth]

Also worth noting, I parsed my H2H trials in Abyssea today. RR + SS atma gave me ~54% crit rate (Confirming the 30% boost from RR.)

I parsed my club skillup party (Brass Jadagna/K-club) aka time-building party, also got 54%. So yeah, it's about +30% rate and damage. Btw, 2k True Strikes are amusing.

[Vidian]

Do we have any parses for Torcleaver other than the ein one?^^

[Sin Harvest]

Do we have any parses for Torcleaver other than the ein one?^^

Dont see much torc data, I'm around it a lot though its a powerful weaponskill, Here's another ein t2 parse though. Lower average can be accounted for by triple bats.

Damage Summary
Player               Total Dmg   Damage %   Melee Dmg   Range Dmg   Abil. Dmg  WSkill Dmg   Spell Dmg  Other Dmg
Aable                    61053    21.15 %       25166           0       35853           0           0         34
Agentmunchy                  4     0.00 %           0           0           0           0           4          0
Auronku                   4143     1.44 %           0           0           0           0        4143          0
Calix                    41857    14.50 %       18556           0           0       23292           0          9
Derian                    1557     0.54 %           0           0           0           0        1557          0
Devona                   13618     4.72 %        6019           0           0        7559           0         40
Gabronth                 13375     4.63 %           0           0           0           0       13375          0
Ichrius                  28318     9.81 %       14310           0       13614           0           0        394
Katoke                    1187     0.41 %         899           0           0         288           0          0
Kraytos                   3818     1.32 %           0           0           0           0        3818          0
Noneko                      72     0.02 %           0           0           0           0          72          0
Sinharvest               53697    18.60 %       16775           0       36922           0           0          0
Thorauko                    11     0.00 %           0           0           0           0          11          0
Zven                     62596    21.68 %       35461           0          24       26735           0        376
SC: Fragmentation         1929     0.67 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
SC: Light                 1437     0.50 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
Total                   288672   100.00 %      117186           0       86413       57874       22980        853


Melee Damage
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi    M.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit%
Aable                 25166   41.22 %       89/7   92.71 %   125/363   268.88     22   243/428  325.05   24.72 %
Calix                 18556   44.33 %       71/4   94.67 %    87/593   246.15     17   197/523  309.65   23.94 %
Devona                 6019   44.20 %       48/0  100.00 %    31/211   114.91      4   159/298  240.75    8.33 %
Ichrius               14310   50.53 %       62/3   95.38 %    95/332   214.87      8   259/409  338.38   12.90 %
Katoke                  899   75.74 %       45/8   84.91 %      3/29    16.33      6     34/55   43.67   13.33 %
Sinharvest            16775   31.24 %       71/9   88.75 %    97/322   224.25     10   214/371  309.60   14.08 %
Zven                  35461   56.65 %      111/8   93.28 %   122/689   299.51     12   309/868  484.17   10.81 %


Ranged Damage
Player            Range Dmg   Range %   Hit/Miss   R.Acc %  R.Low/Hi    R.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit%
Auronku                   0    0.00 %        0/1    0.00 %       0/0     0.00      0       0/0    0.00    0.00 %


Other Magical Damage  (Additional Effects and Spikes)
Player            M.AE Dmg  # M.AE  M.AE Avg   R.AE Dmg  # R.AE  R.AE Avg   Spk.Dmg  # Spike  Spk.Avg
Aable                   34       6      5.67          0       0      0.00         0        0     0.00
Calix                    9       5      1.80          0       0      0.00         0        0     0.00
Devona                  40       3     13.33          0       0      0.00         0        0     0.00
Ichrius                394      23     17.13          0       0      0.00         0        0     0.00
Zven                   210      27      7.78          0       0      0.00       166        3    55.33


Weaponskill Damage
Player                 WSkill Dmg   WSkill %  Hit/Miss   WS.Acc %   WS.Low/Hi   WS.Avg
Calix                       23292    55.65 %      16/0   100.00 %    393/2349  1455.75
 - King's Justice            6133    26.33 %       4/0   100.00 %    393/2349  1533.25
 - Metatron Torment          1005     4.31 %       1/0   100.00 %   1005/1005  1005.00
 - Raging Rush              16154    69.35 %      11/0   100.00 %    947/2074  1468.55
Devona                       7559    55.51 %      11/1    91.67 %    254/1310   687.18
 - Tachi: Gekko              5532    73.18 %       7/1    87.50 %    408/1310   790.29
 - Tachi: Kasha              1132    14.98 %       2/0   100.00 %     382/750   566.00
 - Tachi: Rana                254     3.36 %       1/0   100.00 %     254/254   254.00
 - Tachi: Yukikaze            641     8.48 %       1/0   100.00 %     641/641   641.00
Katoke                        288    24.26 %       2/0   100.00 %      13/275   144.00
 - Aeolian Edge               275    95.49 %       1/0   100.00 %     275/275   275.00
 - Mordant Rime                13     4.51 %       1/0   100.00 %       13/13    13.00
Zven                        26735    42.71 %      21/1    95.45 %    560/1812  1273.10
 - Catastrophe              26735   100.00 %      21/1    95.45 %    560/1812  1273.10


Ability Damage
Player                  Abil. Dmg    Abil. %  Hit/Miss    A.Acc %    A.Low/Hi    A.Avg
Aable                       35853    58.72 %      18/0   100.00 %   1412/2699  1991.83
 - Ukko's Fury              35853   100.00 %      18/0   100.00 %   1412/2699  1991.83
Auronku                         0     0.00 %       0/1     0.00 %         0/0     0.00
 - Modus Veritas                0     0.00 %       0/1     0.00 %         0/0     0.00
Ichrius                     13614    48.08 %       9/0   100.00 %    627/2157  1512.67
 - Torcleaver               13614   100.00 %       9/0   100.00 %    627/2157  1512.67
Sinharvest                  36922    68.76 %      23/1    95.83 %    768/2838  1605.30
 - Tachi: Fudo              36922   100.00 %      23/1    95.83 %    768/2838  1605.30
Zven                           24     0.04 %       1/0   100.00 %       24/24    24.00
 - Weapon Bash                 24   100.00 %       1/0   100.00 %       24/24    24.00

[Aurara]

TEE HEE JP on ifrit strike again!
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...024_165720.png
ill bug him when he finishes. . .

[Guitarman]

so the 4k to jailer rumor was either bullshit, or justice with his mouth open.

[Darkmagi]

Prudence, also /thf iirc. The drk in question is extremely gimp too.

[Guitarman]

prudence that's right. Been ages since i've been to sea.

[Aurara]

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...024_231654.png
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...024_231629.png

when we finish we will do testing :3