Final Form Magian Weapons

[Malacite]

That's not... he's seriously not maining Fourth Mantle & Hachiman @ 85 is he?

Guess Ron White was right; you can't fix stupid. I mean there's ignorance, and then there's ppl like this SAM

And is that a warwolf for TP? Or maybe town gear? >_>

[Darkmagi]

What the fuck at that sam. Even has a gimped subjob to boot.

[Guitarman]

SAM makes me -.- The NIN looks cool tho. I don't think NIN AF3 waist is out yet tho, unless I missed it someplace. Hopefully Blade: sup is something to write home about for NIN finally.

jp on shiva has the ws on the woe path katana. I have dmg from others filtered, but he took a VT colibri from 90%-5% with One ws.

[Babu]

That's not... he's seriously not maining Fourth Mantle & Hachiman @ 85 is he?

Actually I think the mantle is the SAM AF piece Unkai Sugemino. 5 STR 14 ATK and Enhances Zanshin. Only guessing because we recently did the NM for it, but I can't excuse anyone's gear... especially when I take a look around my closet

[Laika]

How are they "riding my coat tails" and taking "my coins"? They're getting coins well within the guidelines of how SE designed the zone. Let's say I did have a problem with it. Ok, how is impotently complaining here going to change that? The zone is what it is. SE obviously designed it that way because they want random people zoning in and working together, which is a foreign concept to most people playing this game because they're stuck in that Dragon's Aery 2004 mindstate.

Because if they're only able to lot on said coins through the defeat of the bosses by the hands of others then you are clearly leeching? If you were not necessary to the win because you did something completely pivotal or you weren't part of the group to begin with and they decline your help then it makes no difference if you are there or not. On the other hand, if the group isn't there then you probably would not have had the same chance to lot. If you end up winning the lot on the coins you have only "earned" it in the mere sense of the word as validated by the system it was designed in and does not reflect on effort, whether any was made or not. Just because it's within the guidelines doesn't mean it's not leeching. If the idea was that random people were meant to work together as you say, then those people should be waiting outside to group up with other randoms instead of entering a zone when there is already an established group inside. If you do not consider the circumstances liable to abuse then does that mean you would not consider it a problem for someone to grab a glass from an existing dynamis run and enter and start casting lots? The method of entry restriction is not analogous but the fact is that the way it is designed fundamentally is being inside == ability to lot as well. As for how the event was designed to be played, that idea is really irrelevant because how something is designed to play doesn't necessarily reflect how it actually is played and only one of those two has any real significance. Was ninja ever meant to tank when it was created? Did it matter when people were using them to tank? It has little to do with what you personally do or with any sort of mindstate and everything to do with the reality of the situation.

And like I said instead of taking the stance of "what are you doing in MY ZONE?!" I invite them and they learn how to win. Then when they lead a group they invite me. I've went with just about every notable LS on my server, and taught half of the ones that go how to win. That's far more productive than an "us vs them" approach. I finished the scythe 2 weeks ago, am 20/30 on the GA, 16/30 on the GS and have seen a fuck ton of weapons completed with this method, by both NA and JPN.

Implying that everyone who is solo does what you do or that however things work on your server is how it works on others. Also implying people will always be interested in "being productive" or rather "being smart" and not just hide in a corner with reraise on to cast lots at the end. How is what you have done personally or how many coins you have gotten or who you have gotten them with relevant to the complaint of leeches? Are you taking offense for some reason because you think people are grouping you with people who actually do leech when what you are doing clearly isn't? Do you think what you have done is actually what the majority of people who hang around in WoE zone waiting for established groups to go in do?

I really do not understand how you cannot see past your personal experiences to see the validity in other's complaint that people leech.

[Psion]

ITT: people QQing because some random person is "stealing" their top 5 chests by doing more to gain points than one of the people who were "supposed" to earn it.

Seriously, shut the fuck up, WoE is a random PUG and free for all event by design. Don't act like you're some high and mighty shell that deserves the zone to yourself, when the event isn't designed that way. You are just a group of friends who decide to fight in a zone, where other people also decide to fight in that zone. You are not a linkshell laying claim to a zone like in dynamis. Get that out of your heads this instant and never have it return. Start working with those random people instead of crying about it, and maybe you'll find your game less stressful and ::gasp:: maybe make new friends, or have one of those random people save your asses from a potential fail run.

[ArwynOfOdin]

ITT: people QQing because some random person is "stealing" their top 5 chests by doing more to gain points than one of the people who were "supposed" to earn it.

Seriously, shut the fuck up, WoE is a random PUG and free for all event by design. Don't act like you're some high and mighty shell that deserves the zone to yourself, when the event isn't designed that way. You are just a group of friends who decide to fight in a zone, where other people also decide to fight in that zone. You are not a linkshell laying claim to a zone like in dynamis. Get that out of your heads this instant and never have it return. Start working with those random people instead of crying about it, and maybe you'll find your game less stressful and ::gasp:: maybe make new friends, or have one of those random people save your asses from a potential fail run.

Except that many of these supposed 'innocent' people just trying to utilize the event the way it's meant to be are actually waiting for linkshells to enter a conflux so they can piggyback off the linkshell's collaborative effort instead of just jumping in any zone at any given point and fighting with whomever happens to be in there, which is lame. They do this knowing how to exploit the system and score a top tiered chest.

Rationalizing it by arguing that it is 'the way SE designed it' is no different than camping on top of another old school experience party. Is it allowed and within SE's design structure? Sure. Is it mannerly and respectful. No.

Just because you can doesn't mean you necessarily should.

[ronin sparthos]

ITT: people QQing because some random person is "stealing" their top 5 chests by doing more to gain points than one of the people who were "supposed" to earn it.

Seriously, shut the fuck up, WoE is a random PUG and free for all event by design. Don't act like you're some high and mighty shell that deserves the zone to yourself, when the event isn't designed that way. You are just a group of friends who decide to fight in a zone, where other people also decide to fight in that zone. You are not a linkshell laying claim to a zone like in dynamis. Get that out of your heads this instant and never have it return. Start working with those random people instead of crying about it, and maybe you'll find your game less stressful and ::gasp:: maybe make new friends, or have one of those random people save your asses from a potential fail run.

Yeah! Stick it to those elitist jerks trying to keep all the coins for themselves. They never think about the little guy.

The "QQ" is about people who do nothing but camp linkshells and lot coins while doing little to nothing during the actual battles. If a linkshell does a run and you happen to get a personal chest? Great, thats yours, keep the treasure. A JP alliance tried to tell me in /t that I should give them the personal box loot once during a run and my response was sorry, if you're an LS and cant get your own people to place when they have support and im alone, you might want to evaluate your setup.

What's fucking retarded is when one leech decides to lot everything in main pool because they "deserve" it over the entire group that put in 99% of the effort to win the chamber. It has nothing to do with trying to screw people over, it's just a plain dick move to lot treasure that you damn well know would never have happened in a PUG situation. It doesn't even boil down to some people wanting one type of coin no, they want to lot everything in the pool.

Pure greed, nothing new.

[Xera]

A JP alliance tried to tell me in /t that I should give them the personal box loot once during a run and my response was sorry, if you're an LS and cant get your own people to place when they have support and im alone, you might want to evaluate your setup.

You might have a point if being useful equated to ranking, many times we've had a Perle SAM+RDM duo rank in top 5 just because the top 5 system rewards poor play style.

Either way if they win their top 5 thats great, take it and GTFO. Nothing is more irritating than throwing our lotting order out of the window because someone decides to lot everything and our guy lots a 29.

[Dooom]

You might have a point if being useful equated to ranking, many times we've had a Perle SAM+RDM duo rank in top 5 just because the top 5 system rewards poor play style.

Have we any idea how ranking works/what gets exp in WoE? I always see corsairs coming top, even above decent relic DDs and such, and it makes me scratch my head.

[Yugl]

Small list, but if you have ever . . .

1. Botted
2. Claimed an NM that someone else camped longer than you
3. Received an item through the LS without putting as much effort (or spending as much points) as another person that received the same item
4. Claimed and killed an NM at 75% or less HP that someone else wiped to (And received the drops)
5. Other stuff

You shouldn't fucking complain about people taking "your" shit in WoE.

[Raen Ryong]

4. Claimed and killed an NM at 75% or less HP that someone else wiped to (And received the drops)

I don't see how this is in any way a dick move. Unless you're a truly altruistic soul, unless you contributed to their wipe, they had their chance - and blew it. It's yours now.

Nothing is more irritating than throwing our lotting order out of the window because someone decides to lot everything and our guy lots a 29.

If it's a non rare/ex item, just make your entire LS lot on it and then give it to the bid winners.

[lolwut]

Small list, but if you have ever . . .

1. Botted
2. Claimed an NM that someone else camped longer than you
3. Received an item through the LS without putting as much effort (or spending as much points) as another person that received the same item
4. Claimed and killed an NM at 75% or less HP that someone else wiped to (And received the drops)
5. Other stuff

You shouldn't fucking complain about people taking "your" shit in WoE.

There is zero correlation between the nonsense you mentioned and leeching in WoE. The Dynamis example made earlier is the closest logical one, because you can enter, do nothing, and still get the spoils. If you claim an NM in any normal circumstance, regardless of percentage, you still have to be capable of killing that NM to gain anything from it.

The people who leech WoE DO NOT have the ability to kill for the drops on their own, and take away the rewards from people who do. It's really fucking simple.

Crabs can be killed with Mnk Mnk Cor Whm Rdm, and takes about the same time to clear than slimes unless they're being particularly annoying. My low man does chambers 1 and 2 with the same 5 people + sac mule, the only real benefit to slimes for us is the ability to do it with 4 when someone's taking a day off. If there are other people in WoE, we usually try to offer them first pick on chambers and go to an alternate conflux.

[Gerkin]

Have we any idea how ranking works/what gets exp in WoE? I always see corsairs coming top, even above decent relic DDs and such, and it makes me scratch my head.

It seems alot like campaign, only a little different. Theres just a cap on everything and its very quickly reached. Cors do so well because they are doing damage, healing, and buffing, and doing magical damage all at the same time. Its also why i place sometimes on pup when im nuking half the fight, then get in a bind and switch to whm auto, take hits, deal damage and cure myself. Its also why youll never beat a paladin, it seems damage taken/ curing/ damage given is like the optimal combo.

Which is why we have like 3 plds that just sit in WoE on our server and dont do anything until a group of 5 or so enter number 2, or a bigger group enters 4 5 or 6. And they always placed around 1st.

[Xera]

Have we any idea how ranking works/what gets exp in WoE? I always see corsairs coming top, even above decent relic DDs and such, and it makes me scratch my head.

It's similar to campaign from what I can tell with different caps on actions. Not sure about the COR ranking high, SE might have allowed buffs to give a nice amount of exp similar to before BRD nerf.

Basically from my experience, the DD(tank) who takes the most damage wins. I generally play WHM and I've gotten 1st a few times when shit hit the fan and I took multiple hits.

[Yugl]

I don't see how this is in any way a dick move. Unless you're a truly altruistic soul, unless you contributed to their wipe, they had their chance - and blew it. It's yours now.

I'm not saying it's an "evil" move. The correlation is there (Though I should I have said <50% HP) because you do less work than the group and receive all the rewards.

There is zero correlation between the nonsense you mentioned and leeching in WoE.

There are multiple complaints people make against "leeches" in WoE; I'll demonstrate how the list correlates with two of them:
1. They do less work and receive all the rewards.
- When you bot, you do less work than another person and receive the "rewards" (Claiming the NM)
- When you claim an NM someone has been killing PHs for, you receive the reward (Claiming the NM/The NM appearing)
- When you receive an item without spending points (Or fewer points) because the LS treats it as trivial, you receive the reward without the original cost
- When you kill an NM someone else has been killing, you receive the rewards (drops)
2. The individual would not have been capable of receiving the reward without X condition.
- It's arguable that many bot LSs would not have claimed had they not used bots
- The person might not have the time to kill PH; nonetheless, they receive the benefits (NM being popped/claim)
- If the item weren't treated as trivial, then they might not have been able to receive the item (Not enough points)
- If you kill an NM someone else has been killing (Best case example is NM @ 10%), one might argue that you could not have killed the NM without the effort of the individual that wiped

Given these complaints, this list indeed does correlate with the problems associated with WoE.

[Byrthnoth]

WoE rewards solo playstyle, but requires team-playstyle to win with low numbers.

For instance, lets say there's a Warrior who wants the Ukko's Fury GA. He also has Bard leveled, and because he's going with 4 friends to clear a chamber and gets a chest either way, he goes Bard. His group starts on the chamber, and suddenly . . . Joe Blow Paradin spawns and starts soloing a monster they've pulled. He solos two (sloooowly) and then afks until the win. Joe Blow Paradin takes (at least) Fifth place, leaving our fearless Warrior chestless.

Without the group of five working together team-style, there would be no chest for Joe Blow Paradin. If the five entered like Joe Blow Paradin, there would be no win for any of them. Did they end up better off for playing as a team, over all? Yeah. Was the Warrior, who sacrificed the most for the team, rewarded at all for not just going a solo job and entering at random? No.

Stupid system is stupid. WoE is almost as poorly designed as when it came out, but now people care about it.

[Jurist]

Its also why youll never beat a paladin, it seems damage taken/ curing/ damage given is like the optimal combo.

Which is why we have like 3 plds that just sit in WoE on our server and dont do anything until a group of 5 or so enter number 2, or a bigger group enters 4 5 or 6. And they always placed around 1st.

I think it was last week, in one of our runs, our PLD went AFK and still placed 1st 20 minutes later.

But sometimes it's just random. I wouldn't be surprised if it changes based on moon/time/day. That would better explain why I've come in first as Corsair doing nothing spectacular.

[lolwut]

I'm not saying it's an "evil" move. The correlation is there (Though I should I have said <50% HP) because you do less work than the group and receive all the rewards.



There are multiple complaints people make against "leeches" in WoE; I'll demonstrate how the list correlates with two of them:
1. They do less work and receive all the rewards.
- When you bot, you do less work than another person and receive the "rewards" (Claiming the NM)
- When you claim an NM someone has been killing PHs for, you receive the reward (Claiming the NM/The NM appearing)
- When you receive an item without spending points (Or fewer points) because the LS treats it as trivial, you receive the reward without the original cost
- When you kill an NM someone else has been killing, you receive the rewards (drops)
2. The individual would not have been capable of receiving the reward without X condition.
- It's arguable that many bot LSs would not have claimed had they not used bots
- The person might not have the time to kill PH; nonetheless, they receive the benefits (NM being popped/claim)
- If the item weren't treated as trivial, then they might not have been able to receive the item (Not enough points)
- If you kill an NM someone else has been killing (Best case example is NM @ 10%), one might argue that you could not have killed the NM without the effort of the individual that wiped

Given these complaints, this list indeed does correlate with the problems associated with WoE.

The problem is, your list is too easily stretched to encompass any situation where something gets easier. You could apply it to level 80 AV kills or Ein E-Bodies, because there's 'less work' involved. The key difference remains, in all the examples except perhaps your last one (which I don't necessarily agree with because I've seen plenty of people try to KS above their skill level and get wiped), WoE leeches do not have the ability to get the items without someone else doing the kill for them.

[Gerkin]

The best example ive seen is about Joe blows war using bard. My friend came out to help on some wins multiple times but is the only whm. We go in with 5, and the 2PLDs that leech everyones run, plus random ninja (who also do very well btw, maybe ninjutsu gives you a bonus), and all the sudden our win , which yielded no pouches, gives chests to leechers who didnt contribute to win, that have the pouches we want. I completely understand everyone that is against it, and have emo'd out on these people a few times because its incredibly frusturating. We didnt go to gear them, and they wouldnt be gearing if it wasnt for us.

If youve ever upgraded or spent time trying to upgrade a WoE weapon, and dont leech other peoples runs, and make your own and try to farm it honestly, then you know how incredibly frustrating, and terrible the system is. Why when i need 11 advancment coins does the rdm thats there to help get 10 in a pouch in personal chest and cant give them to me? We did the same work... hes there for me. But the coins go to waste. THey just need to fix their shit event.