Final Form Magian Weapons

[Strawhat]

k, so what's the strat for farming carabosse with small group? can it be done with 3 or so? thinking of trying rdm or whm, brd, mnk or sam or nin?

[Psion]

k, so what's the strat for farming carabosse with small group? can it be done with 3 or so? thinking of trying rdm or whm, brd, mnk or sam or nin?

Is anyone else getting a sense of deja'vu? lol

[Valient]

Here: http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/15...olowman-guide/

Adapt to what you have.

[Plow]

It would honestly depend on the player's usefulness, we have picked up people to sac or nuke Berry's when going for a full clear. Of course, you also have to balance that against the current needs of the group in regards to coins, if you have two people within 6 of finishing GKT in your group you're not going to want someone else lotting decay. My group has 3 weapons (gun, h2h, gkt) that would have been completed within the last two weeks had it not been for randoms taking pouches/singles.



I actually haven't seen Sohra during one of our runs in a week. Maphesto is actually in my ls, so he tends to keep out of our runs.

Really though, GKT? You're putting in the time to do multiple WoE weapons over Masamune?

[Yugl]

Spoiler: show

Not going to quote all that, apologies if I miss something. Let's start with your botting argument. I'll go ahead and extend this to say that in 99.9% of shells (even 6man groups) the "leaders" put more work in than anyone else. When I was on Midgard and had shitty gear, I organized a salvage group. It was mostly good friends, with a few outside people that became good friends. I never took more than anyone else, and was pretty much as fair as I could be, but even in a group with nothing but good friends (4 of which I'd know for 4 years), I still put in far more work, reading through pages of threads on BG, researching what dropped where and how it all worked, etc. During the run I'd sit there with multiple sites open to reference and make sure we were doing the right thing. What's the point of this story? Your botting analogy is bogus, and is going back to a different issue, that the "leader", official or not, will -ALWAYS- put more work and effort in than the members. Maybe we should just say only LS leaders have a right to complain. No, I don't actually feel this way - but being a leader pretty much blows, and there have definitely been a lot of times where I got quite annoyed at having to hold people's hands through shit. It's not quite as bad as leeching though...
Anyway, going back to the botting thing, a lot of bots are bought with gil, and presumably every LS member is losing payouts to cover that gil. Sure, new members join later and "profit" off of the shell having the bot - but again, this isn't a botting specific thing. New members join successful non-botting shells and ride their success also. We can just hate on new members, but really, it's the fault of veteran members quitting that even makes new members a necessity.
But I don't see how any of this relates to WoE. I still feel that if someone goes to WoE with plans to sit back and watch and lot coins, they have a malicious intent. Is it possible for someone in a LS to act this way also? Sure, and I'll fucking kick them out of any shell I'm a leader in. But most people don't sit here and plan to fuck their LS leaders over (at least, not in my experience).
Same thing goes for account sharing. You can be malicious about it, or you can avoid that. I had a friend who barely logged on for a good 1-2 years, yet kept his account active, and he basically "gave" it to me, but said he may come back and didn't know. I used his account for a long time, leveled his jobs and subjobs, got him gear, etc. I also made use of his account as an Aery mule, as extra Abyssea stones back when I needed them, to help me finish relic trials faster, etc. He came back about 1-2 months ago. I don't resent him because I leveled shit for him. He didn't fake-quit in order to get me to do shit for him. There isn't malicious intent here. On the other hand, if he had said he was quitting, I got the account and leveled shit in 2 weeks, then he came back and changed his PW on me (I still have his PW and also made use of his char since him coming back to finish my Masamune), ya, it'd be pretty asshole, but I guess most friends don't do that to each other? Do you really know someone who quit with the sole intent of having others better their character for them?
I'm not even going to touch your points spent issue. Sounds to me like whatever LS you're referring to has a shit-tastic item distribution system that should be evaluated. Yea, we would give E-Bodies and the like to new members too, because all of our older members are pretty decked out...but the few items the older members wanted pretty much went to older members (D-Ring, Shadow Ring, Valhalla). We never had newer members complain, we never had older members complain...I guess it worked out pretty fairly. If you're saying assume that a distribution system has a flaw, it's wrong to take advantage of that flaw...I agree to a point. I think a member should point out the flaw to the leaders, explain why it's bad, and if the leaders refuse to acknowledge or fix it, then fuck em and take advantage of it all you want. On the other hand, if you try to snake in and profit for yourself...well, that's fucked up and wrong. But in the end, get a better distribution system.
Your PW example is odd, and is probably one of the few times that I'd agree with you on it being in a similar boat to this WoE mechanic. As far as I know (sorry, I could be wrong), no shell that has killed PW has kept it claimed through the entire final form (I know we didn't), and instead expects it to go white on Astral Flows. As that is a common strategy, it does perhaps fall into a category of essentially piggy-backing off of others. On the other hand, AV you have 1 shot at, and unless you have 2 zerg allies up and ready, once he regens from bracelet mode (at least at 80), it was pretty much over, so taking it at 20% when a shell wipes is different. But you're now moving from very general ideas to one very specific mob that I'd be surprised to hear has even been popped once since the level 85 increase.

And no, you don't piss me off...I share information to help people out, I post on and read these forums because it is enjoyable to me. While you may be benefiting off of my time, or another posters time, you are not depriving us of what we were doing with our time. Me and my LS/friends still got everything we expected to get when we put the time in, and I willingly came here and spent further time posting (and received some form of enjoyment/entertainment while doing so, otherwise I wouldn't post here).

Finally, I didn't say you're asking too much, I said you're expecting too much. Wanting it to be the case, and honestly expecting everyone to be crystal clear with their concepts are 2 entirely different things, and I feel it is unrealistic to expect every poster to be so clear. I've found while typing this post, that my last definition or whatnot was not clear enough - it is not just intent to profit off of someone else's actions, but that along with denying them their expected outcome that makes it a sore point. And I still feel that most of your original examples are nowhere near as similar as you want them to be. I will grant PW, but that is literally the only NM (and really, if there's an accepted strategy that doesn't involve letting it go white, I'll say PW doesn't even count) that this is the case for, and you can't make a general statement about taking an NM someone wipes too, and find 1 example where it fits, then claim that your original statement is thus correct. It just doesn't work that way when 99% of the NMs it does not in fact fit.

Again, sorry if I missed any specific points, or if I rambled off topic a bit, but I think most people have every right to be upset at WoE leeches. I also agree with whichever posters said if someone comes in and actually earns a chest - power to them. It'd annoy me still, but I don't think it would be -wrong- of them to do so. It is however, quite wrong to go in, do nothing, and lot coins.

Of course people have a "right" to be upset at WoE leeches, but the problem I saw with the complaints is that their argument is founded on general statements that yield ridiculous results. As you mentioned, my earlier examples did not correlate with the problems people perceive WoE to have. This is important because it means their premise for change and discontent is either not based on the argument they put forth or not solely based on the argument they put forth. I might have real issues with a botter that out claims me at (NM here) simply because they want to sell an item or because they don't want me to have the item. While my conclusion might hold substance, if I preface it solely on the argument that botters are bad and bad people should not claim NMs, will people take my argument seriously? That's the problem that I saw here and it's the reason I commented; some of the claims for hating leechers are just stupid. Another reason I comment is that I suspect the grounds for frustration are things that people themselves engage in. In short, it's quite possible that karma is killing some people here.

Given what I've said, the reason you're not seeing the connection between the example I post and your reasons for hating people in WoE is that it's too broad. Since it lacks specificity, it opens grounds for complaints on issues that seem completely unrelated except with respect to the exact arguments given. For example, given the bot example (And I have to disagree with the leader bit since leaders can diffuse responsibilities and are not always the one to "introduce" the LS to the bot) you would argue that resentment is best directed to old members that quit. This shows divergence from the conclusion one would reach if it were simply about "more for less" and "intent for profit." Again, I'm not making analogies, I'm taking arguments and seeing what follows from them. Given these hypothetical situations and the arguments presented, these are the results that follow. Whenever your answer is different from "Yes, I hate these people" it means you acknowledge that the arguments set forth are weak or irrelevant. It can also mean that you don't think they necessarily yield the outcome of resentment (As noted in your previous post where you said intent had to be directed towards profit). This helps your argument by giving you an opportunity to see loopholes and try to amend those loopholes. If you don't want to engage in this type of reasoning, it's perfectly fine; in fact, lots of people have to deal with repeated devil's advocate. At the same time, it does bring you one set closer to that crystal clear argument.

That said, it's interesting to notice there is a split within the "Anti-leech" campaign. You, based on your last remark, have no problem with people earning a chest. On the other hand, there are "Anti-leech" posters stating the exact opposite. They're livid that people, who cannot solo the zone on their own, would take chest items because they leeched WoE.

[lolwut]

Really though, GKT? You're putting in the time to do multiple WoE weapons over Masamune?

No one has GKT as their primary goal, Decay coins just have the highest drop rate for us. We have a gkt, gun, h2h, and gaxe completed, in addition to a dagger, sword, and two more gkt within 10 coins of completion. People want top tier weapons for their ancillary jobs in addition to doing Empyreans for their mains, so they'd be doing the magian trials regardless. Considering the fact that we can complete multiple weapons in the time it takes to do a single Empyrean (a win takes what, 25-30 min tops with the possibility of drops for multiple weapons?), I'm not going to begrudge them something that makes it easier to be versatile.

[FailureMidgard]

That said, it's interesting to notice there is a split within the "Anti-leech" campaign. You, based on your last remark, have no problem with people earning a chest. On the other hand, there are "Anti-leech" posters stating the exact opposite. They're livid that people, who cannot solo the zone on their own, would take chest items because they leeched WoE.

I did say it'd still annoy me, as we definitely don't need or want them there - and while I don't think it's wrong on their part, it is still quite annoying still from our PoV.

[Atoreis]

Holy shit stop this WoE bullshit already or move it to another topic. Seriously You are like children one person said something and boom 3 pages offtopic. Who the fuck care what you think about leeches when it doesn't change a thing. I understand its a forum to share your point of view but do it plz in other topic. Seriously Failure you seems to be very intelligent but you letting yourself be involved in this bullshit discussion.

Now back to the topic.
Kilik gratz.
Can you tell me plz your stats and equip in abyssea?
Can you try SS instead of VV?
Can you tell me your strategy for Bria and Sobek?
I assume you went in farm chests got few sets kill Bria go back to chests got sets kill Bria?
I would be really grateful if you could answer this, thx.

EDIT: Oh good its on new page maybe we can left WoE bs behind.

[lolwut]

Back on topic, I was looking for Brooder before I went to work, and decided to play around with Wildfire in Abyssea.

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/p...aesthetics.jpg

Done in my Leaden gear + Vulcan's Staff, /rdm on Thundersday. Aesthetics and 8 on Blm roll solo, Beyond and Smouldering Atmas. I didn't think to check the level on the worms, but there was an ally killing them. Only tp>ws'd once because I needed to leave for work, posted because it's over 1k higher than the previous tests on the WS.

[FailureMidgard]

Holy shit stop this WoE bullshit already or move it to another topic. Seriously You are like children one person said something and boom 3 pages offtopic. Who the fuck care what you think about leeches when it doesn't change a thing. I understand its a forum to share your point of view but do it plz in other topic. Seriously Failure you seems to be very intelligent but you letting yourself be involved in this bullshit discussion.

Meh, I don't see anything wrong with the discussion.

Can you tell me your strategy for Bria and Sobek?

They are both really easy NMs, and I don't see how you think this is relevant to this thread. Briareus can be killed by 5 people in <2 minutes, especially if your DD are willing to use a fanatics (may take a little longer to kite during 2hr without...not much though..oh, I guess that's "Strategy"...either use a fanatics, or when he 2hrs run, let him get to ~15 away, then run again until he uses Colossal Slam or whatever it is 3x, the re-engage). Sobek can be done in 5ish still with a party of 6 (maybe longer if you plan to hold it to proc grellow - seems silly not to). I'd give a strategy, but wtf, it isn't rocket science. Sobek is one of the few NMs out there I feel /nin is still good for. Briareus /nin is useless.

[orson]

Ok, tl:dr but seriously Yugl are you defending WoE or just trying to point out that bitching about WoE leeches is hypocritical? I don't see why that matters really. Whether it's the way it's designed is irrelevant it's not a good design. People should bitch because that's the way things get fixed usually. The reason kings and other flaws in the game lasted as long as they did is because too many people just sat back and excepted them as "the way the game is."

[ronin sparthos]

Back on topic, I was looking for Brooder before I went to work, and decided to play around with Wildfire in Abyssea.

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/p...aesthetics.jpg

Done in my Leaden gear + Vulcan's Staff, /rdm on Thundersday. Aesthetics and 8 on Blm roll solo, Beyond and Smouldering Atmas. I didn't think to check the level on the worms, but there was an ally killing them. Only tp>ws'd once because I needed to leave for work, posted because it's over 1k higher than the previous tests on the WS.

Do want Smouldering Sky.

My initial tests were with 0 MAB atmas (I had none at the time) so this is indeed promising though Id like to see what kinda damage people can do on the harder NMs that are fire-neutral in the zones.

What was your total AGI if I may ask?

[Yugl]

Ok, tl:dr but seriously Yugl are you defending WoE or just trying to point out that bitching about WoE leeches is hypocritical? I don't see why that matters really. Whether it's the way it's designed is irrelevant it's not a good design. People should bitch because that's the way things get fixed usually. The reason kings and other flaws in the game lasted as long as they did is because too many people just sat back and excepted them as "the way the game is."

I'm just getting people to be perfectly clear about why they hate WoE leeches. On one hand, the non-pragmatic objective is to find contradictions or hypocritical statements (Though I'm very particular about defining these terms). On the other hand, it offers pragmatic solutions to your issue. If people cannot clearly describe their problem with an event, and rely on the old "Yep, Uh huh" agreement, then attempts to fix the system might render solutions you don't enjoy. That is often the case in FFXI and even politics where people say they wanted change, were unclear about their intentions, and wound up with an unsatisfactory response. For example, if SE read this thread and found that people wanted WoE to be fixed to resolve the "more for less" issue, they could implement changes that address that issue without appealing to the "intent for profit" or "will of the donors" (the majority participating) arguments. It really does help you more than you (not you specifically, but people on the hate boat) perceive.

[Atoreis]

Meh, I don't see anything wrong with the discussion.



They are both really easy NMs, and I don't see how you think this is relevant to this thread. Briareus can be killed by 5 people in <2 minutes, especially if your DD are willing to use a fanatics (may take a little longer to kite during 2hr without...not much though..oh, I guess that's "Strategy"...either use a fanatics, or when he 2hrs run, let him get to ~15 away, then run again until he uses Colossal Slam or whatever it is 3x, the re-engage). Sobek can be done in 5ish still with a party of 6 (maybe longer if you plan to hold it to proc grellow - seems silly not to). I'd give a strategy, but wtf, it isn't rocket science. Sobek is one of the few NMs out there I feel /nin is still good for. Briareus /nin is useless.

Im looking for strategy for 3 ppl. I was thinking when I get Masa I could go sam+smn+rdm and do fanatic on sam sekka->2hr->wing->medi->melee/ws till fana off->SMN2hr->RDM chainspell and me keep going with zerg-> If that wont kill kite on w/e have hate and BP+nuke to finish it off. Am I wrong here?
I should have 2hr ready every pop becouse i just want to farm TE and gold and pop when get set then go back to farm (get 3 soothing) etc.

[lolwut]

Do want Smouldering Sky.

My initial tests were with 0 MAB atmas (I had none at the time) so this is indeed promising though Id like to see what kinda damage people can do on the harder NMs that are fire-neutral in the zones.

What was your total AGI if I may ask?

77+70 iirc. Navarch +1 head and feet, only have one Furtherance and I'm still missing 7 Agi belt/Skadi hands, so there's still room to easily add another 15 agi on top of that. May also mess around with different combinations of smouldering/strangling/beyond to see how much the 30 agi buffs it.

[Thorny]

Im looking for strategy for 3 ppl. I was thinking when I get Masa I could go sam+smn+rdm and do fanatic on sam sekka->2hr->wing->medi->melee/ws till fana off->SMN2hr->RDM chainspell and me keep going with zerg-> If that wont kill kite on w/e have hate and BP+nuke to finish it off. Am I wrong here?
I should have 2hr ready every pop becouse i just want to farm TE and gold and pop when get set then go back to farm (get 3 soothing) etc.

Why would you farm Briareus pops out of gold..? A popset is just 3 items from T1 mobs. Cap only Azure, camp at Gigas A, kill until all 3 of you get key items. Move to Gigas B, kill until all 3 of you get key items. Move to Gigas C, kill until all 3 of you get key items. Go do 3 briareus. This cycle should take about 2 hours for 5 helms trio, or 20 hours total while maintaining time extensions.. la theine is a joke.

[FailureMidgard]

Im looking for strategy for 3 ppl. I was thinking when I get Masa I could go sam+smn+rdm and do fanatic on sam sekka->2hr->wing->medi->melee/ws till fana off->SMN2hr->RDM chainspell and me keep going with zerg-> If that wont kill kite on w/e have hate and BP+nuke to finish it off. Am I wrong here?
I should have 2hr ready every pop becouse i just want to farm TE and gold and pop when get set then go back to farm (get 3 soothing) etc.

My bad for not being psychic and realizing your extent was 3 people. In any case, that just means you'll kill it slower, but I'm 100% sure DD+brd+mage can kill Briareus fine...again, kite on 2hr and communicate properly if ST20 hits, when it wears off. You're going way to far trying to rotate shit for a zerg that's completely un-needed.

Why would you farm Briareus pops out of gold..? A popset is just 3 items from T1 mobs. Cap only Azure, camp at Gigas A, kill until all 3 of you get key items. Move to Gigas B, kill until all 3 of you get key items. Move to Gigas C, kill until all 3 of you get key items. Go do 3 briareus. This cycle should take about 2 hours for 5 helms trio, or 20 hours total while maintaining time extensions.. la theine is a joke.

Still, if you're gonna be in there for X hours straight, may as well cap amber, it may save a little time.

[Kilik]

Holy shit stop this WoE bullshit already or move it to another topic. Seriously You are like children one person said something and boom 3 pages offtopic. Who the fuck care what you think about leeches when it doesn't change a thing. I understand its a forum to share your point of view but do it plz in other topic. Seriously Failure you seems to be very intelligent but you letting yourself be involved in this bullshit discussion.

Now back to the topic.
Kilik gratz.
Can you tell me plz your stats and equip in abyssea?
Can you try SS instead of VV?
Can you tell me your strategy for Bria and Sobek?
I assume you went in farm chests got few sets kill Bria go back to chests got sets kill Bria?
I would be really grateful if you could answer this, thx.

EDIT: Oh good its on new page maybe we can left WoE bs behind.

1) Those numbers in Abyssea were with RR+VV. I also had full cruor buffs (with both Furtherance abyssites).
2) Here is current ws setup. Wasnt sure which gorget so I used hope torque and I had rajas+triumph rings and foragers mantle at the time: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/184511
WS gear I'm planning on using: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/184195
3) I won't be on till about 930ish EST tonight, but I plan on trying SS+RR then.
4) Briareus was just 2-3 melee on it. 2 melee (me nin and a bravura war) killed it in 3min. Adding spharai mnk brought kill times to 2min. Only time it took longer was when it actually 2hr'd. When it 2hr'd, we stunned first Colossal Slam, ran out of range of the next 2, then went back to killing. Sobek was the same except no need to run. Fights took about 3-5min tops depending on how many times it did Heavy Bellow.
5) For Briareus we killed the T1 NMs for keys. We would take the 10-12 ppl we usually had and get them all the key from one NM then move to the next. 12 keys from one NM took about 1-1.5hrs since we had all Red !! trigger ws's covered.

@Failure, we didn't cap amber since we wanted a higher chance at time chests when chests did drop. We had a blm cap azure on ephemerals and our 2-3 melee cap pearl on Crapaudy. We farmed about 150min initially and then went to NM killing. Since we were popping NMs as soon as ??? repopped, we didn't kill many in between for chance at chests. We figured it would slow down our overall progress if we had to stop popping NMs to get more chests if there was a mix of blue and gold.

[Thorny]

^This guy's a moron, and his shell is pretty inefficient apparently.

Still, if you're gonna be in there for X hours straight, may as well cap amber, it may save a little time.

I kind of doubt that, as just killing the NMs + 6-8 mobs during the 3 min repop is pushing your luck for positive time. If you cap amber, you're looking at ~45:45:10 ratio.. if a time chest is 1/8 chance for blue and chest rate is 95%, you get one chest per 18.5 mobs. Given the plain NM fights take ~3min each and 3 briareus is 30 min, you'd need to get 12 chests in 45 minutes or 5 mobs per minute to maintain time. If you change ratio to 80:10:10 it's only 2.8 mobs per minute, which you can easily keep up with. The former is certainly doable, but trio? You're getting yourself a pretty big risk, especially considering people are likely to afk some over the course of a 20h farm.

[Atoreis]

^This guy's a moron, and his shell is pretty inefficient apparently.


I kind of doubt that, as just killing the NMs + 6-8 mobs during the 3 min repop is pushing your luck for positive time. If you cap amber, you're looking at ~45:45:10 ratio.. if a time chest is 1/8 chance for blue and chest rate is 95%, you get one chest per 18.5 mobs. Given the plain NM fights take ~3min each and 3 briareus is 30 min, you'd need to get 12 chests in 45 minutes or 5 mobs per minute to maintain time. If you change ratio to 80:10:10 it's only 2.8 mobs per minute, which you can easily keep up with. The former is certainly doable, but trio? You're getting yourself a pretty big risk, especially considering people are likely to afk some over the course of a 20h farm.

You assume all T1 drop KI? From my experience with Carabosse when I was on MNK+RDM(Im doing BRD mule now with my friend) the rate of trigger for NMs and KI was pretty bad. Once we did 7 Cara in like 10h (starting from 40+ min building time to like 250 then starting killing Carabosse and trying to get TE from pixies and flys while trying to get KI) but 2nd we did like 3 in 10h becouse a) we had like 30 flys w/o trigger drop b) we had like 1/7 on KI many time. It was a fucking pain so I switched to NIN and then KI wasnt a problem but maintaining TE drop was. We somehow are unlucky on TE or idk but many times there was no te in like 40 chests (capped azure and perle and 0 other lights). Do you think BRD will make a lot difference and let us easily maintain TE ? (My NIN is pretty gimp still compare to MNK too :/). I wish I could farm TE on MNK and kill NMs on NIN lol.