Final Form Magian Weapons

[Nightfyre]

It can dip below 3. Remember that there are two formulas for pDIF in any given range (min and max) and that the value fed into the randomization function is a random value within that range. Min pDIF on a crit should be 2.6 iirc.

[Scrooge]

It can dip below 3. Remember that there are two formulas for pDIF in any given range (min and max) and that the value fed into the randomization function is a random value within that range. Min pDIF on a crit should be 2.6 iirc.

Well. Knowing that would have saved hours of my life beating my face into my keyboard. Hot damn.

Thanks.

[Humblejoe]

Nah nah, let me clear this shit up. Malacite is suggesting people will /thf for TH2, and Humblejoe is talking about the relic thf already in every party.

I was actually trying to point out that I hardly ever post, but Malacite says dumb shit nearly every single time he posts. It's infuriating to acknowledge I've read half the shit he's posted.

[Kidnoftle]

Let's not forget tarutaru sash augment either, so technically TH+3 was already in play.

[orson]

Cloudsplitter definitely seems more like a BST WS being magical and all.

The only poster that got the WoE version did no testing beyond the initial "it sucks" which didn't take into account Abyssea, atmas or anything. =(

I don't know how you figure it's geared more towards Bst but ya the WS is just supposed to be kind of sucky. Granted it raises questions like I'm not sure if anyone posted their results in a Primal Rend MAB style build. Odds are if it is magical based WS it'll suck but presumably Str and Mnd should be it's main bonuses so maybe it won't suck that bad.

[ronin sparthos]

I don't know how you figure it's geared more towards Bst but ya the WS is just supposed to be kind of sucky. Granted it raises questions like I'm not sure if anyone posted their results in a Primal Rend MAB style build. Odds are if it is magical based WS it'll suck but presumably Str and Mnd should be it's main bonuses so maybe it won't suck that bad.

Primal Rend is the primary BST weaponskill used and it's magical in nature. Much like Wildfire is an improved Leaden Salute, it wouldn't surprise me if Cloudsplitter is an improvement on Primal Rend.

Granted that 1 handed axes have always been BST-oriented (Guttler, Aymur) for the purposes of "top tier" weaponry, it'd be no surprise if SE designed the weaponskill to favor BST over WAR even though both can use the weapon.

The only difference we have this time around is that SE is giving WAR some option to choose between Farsha tied to a magic WS and Ukonvasara which is tied to Ukko's Fury.

[Kilik]

Kilik                      476655    37.55 %     143/0   100.00 %    478/5086  3333.25
 - Blade: Hi               476655   100.00 %     143/0   100.00 %    478/5086  3333.25

Using RR+Gnarled Horn atmas. Only 1 double attack.

[Malacite]

Kilik                      476655    37.55 %     143/0   100.00 %    478/5086  3333.25
 - Blade: Hi               476655   100.00 %     143/0   100.00 %    478/5086  3333.25

Using RR+Gnarled Horn atmas. Only 1 double attack.

^ wtf? Best secondary you got or ... ? Don't see why anyone in their right mind would take Gnarled Horn over SS, VV or SA.

[EjinCaitsith]

You forgot to post full parse or at least forgot to tell us what mobs it was on and buffs you had =P

[Kilik]

Berserk, Warcry, Pizza+1, 2x minuets. No stalwarts. On Blood Bats in Tahrongi.

@Malacite, yea why would I want to push my crit rate to over 75% when NINs main dmg comes from DoT. Also why would I want a higher chance to crit on a crit based ws and +50 more to my WS modifier. Also the counter doesn't hurt when I inevitably take hate.

[FailureMidgard]

Berserk, Warcry, Pizza+1, 2x minuets. No stalwarts. On Blood Bats in Tahrongi.

@Malacite, yea why would I want to push my crit rate to over 75% when NINs main dmg comes from DoT. Also why would I want a higher chance to crit on a crit based ws and +50 more to my WS modifier. Also the counter doesn't hurt when I inevitably take hate.

30% critdamage is better than 10% critrate. No idea overall with agility and such added, but ya...

[Kilik]

The 30% crit dmg does nothing for my WS when I dont crit. I was seeing low numbers more often than I liked when I was using SS. The AGI and extra crit rate helps keep my average up but lowers my max potential.

[Guitarman]

^ wtf? Best secondary you got or ... ? Don't see why anyone in their right mind would take Gnarled Horn over SS, VV or SA.

Atma of the Gnarled HornCounter+: Minor Critical Hit Rate+: Minor AGI+: Major Sobek
:Hi is agi modded, so....

[FailureMidgard]

The 30% crit dmg does nothing for my WS when I dont crit. I was seeing low numbers more often than I liked when I was using SS. The AGI and extra crit rate helps keep my average up but lowers my max potential.

Ok, assuming a base critrate of 65% and crit damage increase of 1.3*1.3=1.69.

You have D * .35 + D*.65*1.69 = D(.35+1.0986) = D(1.4485)

+10% critrate:
D*.25 + D*.75*1.69 = D(.25+1.2675) = D(1.5175)

+30%critdamage:
D*.35 + D*.65*1.3*1.6 = D(.35+1.352) = D(1.702)

This is average damage. vs no Atma, the +30% crit damage is a 17.5% increase in average damage, and the +10% crit rate is a 4.76% increase. Again, I'm not sure on the agility mod, and the damage counter adds, but it isn't even remotely close before the agility. I'm glad you're eyeballing it all and trying to make sense, but the numbers just don't agree with you...I really don't see the agility closing this gap, but I could be wrong...and it's not like extra HP ever hurt?

[Yugl]

See, I had this problem too FM. I was making a comparison of Atma in the BLU thread to compare the benefits of RR+VV versus RR+SS for the sole purpose of SATACA spells. Mathematically, it worked in favor of RR+SS, but according to one poster on FFXIAH, he sees consistently higher damage from RR+VV. At the time, I was convinced that it had to do with hidden properties of STR affecting BLU spells to the degree that it made up for the difference in damage (Though very unlikely). However, Kilik's "findings" suggest there is something about RR+SS that we may be missing (Hidden caps or something).

[FailureMidgard]

See, I had this problem too FM. I was making a comparison of Atma in the BLU thread to compare the benefits of RR+VV versus RR+SS for the sole purpose of SATACA spells. Mathematically, it worked in favor of RR+SS, but according to one poster on FFXIAH, he sees consistently higher damage from RR+VV. At the time, I was convinced that it had to do with hidden properties of STR affecting BLU spells to the degree that it made up for the difference in damage (Though very unlikely). However, Kilik's "findings" suggest there is something about RR+SS that we may be missing (Hidden caps or something).

Kirschy tested the 2 together, and there was no cap. There are random factors involved, differing buffs, and the fact it's very hard to adequately parse against yourself (parsing vs other people doesn't prove one is better). Kilik also has no findings and isn't talking about VV at all. He's just guessing, and his guess is very far offbase. Comparing to VV is significantly harder since the regain isn't very easy to quantify (and yet, is pretty nice to have, esp if you have any downtime at all...). I also wouldn't trust "one poster on FFXIAH" without actual parses with the same buffs/targets/etc with a sufficient sample size.

As a side note, in the case of Blade: Hi, you may end up skewing towards higher numbers due to the huge multi-crits not allowing the last hit to go off, whereas non-SS won't have anywhere near the max damage. This may even be a valid argument against SS if you're just spamming bullshit like Blood Bats, but I really do believe SS is the better DD atma overall.

[Kilik]

I'll parse more with both. I still like the potential of the RR+SS combo. I'm no where near certain which will be the best since I've only had 3-4 long abyssea runs since i've finished the katana. We are working on Tahrongi based Empyrean weapons now, so I'll have plenty of time to test the atmas. I'll do the next run with RR+SS full time to see how it compares.

[Yugl]

Kirschy tested the 2 together, and there was no cap. There are random factors involved, differing buffs, and the fact it's very hard to adequately parse against yourself (parsing vs other people doesn't prove one is better). Kilik also has no findings and isn't talking about VV at all. He's just guessing, and his guess is very far offbase. Comparing to VV is significantly harder since the regain isn't very easy to quantify (and yet, is pretty nice to have, esp if you have any downtime at all...). I also wouldn't trust "one poster on FFXIAH" without actual parses with the same buffs/targets/etc with a sufficient sample size.

As a side note, in the case of Blade: Hi, you may end up skewing towards higher numbers due to the huge multi-crits not allowing the last hit to go off, whereas non-SS won't have anywhere near the max damage. This may even be a valid argument against SS if you're just spamming bullshit like Blood Bats, but I really do believe SS is the better DD atma overall.

Not worth discussing, but I should correct my earlier post to say Stout Arm, so as far as it concerns BLU spells, it's consistent.

[Malacite]

ty FM.

Also, okay you can probably rule out Stout Arm, but Voracious Violet would still boost damage a bit while (more importantly) boosting TP gain. So yeah there's better than Gnarled Horn... (which strikes me as more of a MNK atma anyway, especially with Ascetic's Fury or Victory Smite)

[Clash Perez]

(which strikes me as more of a MNK atma anyway, especially with Ascetic's Fury or Victory Smite)

What does this even mean? Did you think about that comment before you wrote it?