Final Form Magian Weapons

[FailureMidgard]

Ok, assuming a base critrate of 65% and crit damage increase of 1.3*1.3=1.69.

You have D * .35 + D*.65*1.69 = D(.35+1.0986) = D(1.4485)

+10% critrate:
D*.25 + D*.75*1.69 = D(.25+1.2675) = D(1.5175)

+30%critdamage:
D*.35 + D*.65*1.3*1.6 = D(.35+1.352) = D(1.702)

This is average damage. vs no Atma, the +30% crit damage is a 17.5% increase in average damage, and the +10% crit rate is a 4.76% increase. Again, I'm not sure on the agility mod, and the damage counter adds, but it isn't even remotely close before the agility. I'm glad you're eyeballing it all and trying to make sense, but the numbers just don't agree with you...I really don't see the agility closing this gap, but I could be wrong...and it's not like extra HP ever hurt?

First off, it's been brought to my attention I errored, and used the 2h pdif cap, not the 1h, so redoing that real quick (but it doesn't change much).

Ok, assuming a base critrate of 65% and crit damage increase of 1.5*1.3=1.95.

You have D * .35 + D*.65*1.95 = D(.35+1.2675) = D(1.6175)

+10% critrate:
D*.25 + D*.75*1.95 = D(.25+1.4625) = D(1.7125)

+30%critdamage:
D*.35 + D*.65*1.5*1.6 = D(.35+1.56) = D(1.91)

This is average damage. vs no Atma, the +30% crit damage is a 18% increase in average damage, and the +10% crit rate is a 5.8% increase.

ty FM.

Also, okay you can probably rule out Stout Arm, but Voracious Violet would still boost damage a bit while (more importantly) boosting TP gain. So yeah there's better than Gnarled Horn... (which strikes me as more of a MNK atma anyway, especially with Ascetic's Fury or Victory Smite)

Really, your entire premise is wrong, though again not sure on how to quantify regain, and not gonna bother....but STR is likely doing close to nothing on 1handers with +40 STR already. You can argue for attack, but the fact of the matter is that critrate and critdamage both get better relative to attack the lower pdif becomes - so really, if we say pdif isn't capped, the crit is going to gain even more than the strength. DA and regain are both nice, but agility is an actual mod (vs STR only being fSTR which should be capped), which is good....and counter is a nice benefit for anyone who isn't keeping up shadows 100% of the time with just Ni.

[Khajit]

What does this even mean? Did you think about that comment before you wrote it?

Tanking nyo. Tanking. But that still has almost nothing to do with victory smite etc when comparing two crit ws. Has more to do with what job gets the most out of it.

[Clash Perez]

AGI+50, 10% crit rate, and a minor Counter buff vs HP+20%, crit damage +30%, and enmity? I'm still not seeing it, even discounting the bonus damage from SS.

If you don't have SS, then knock yourself out.

[Kirschy]

I was attempting to parse the crit+ on Gnarled Horn the other day and I was getting ~20% crit rate increase, but the sample size was only ~200 hits. Has anyone actualli tested if it's 10%? I plan to test it conclusively soon (along /w the counter+), but since 10% is being thrown around I thought I'd ask~

[Byrthnoth]

Also, have people tested and found that the crit damage increases are applied multiplicatively instead of additively?

[ronin sparthos]

Ok, granted ive been playing around with Jishnu's Radiance and have been pleased with the numbers so I have some pretty basic questions regarding overall improvement in my build.

Current Build: Razed/Stout Atma

Mekki/Grip/Harrier+1/ammo
Gnadbhod's/Torque/Thunder/Delta
Osode/Enkidu's/Jupiter/Rajas
Amemet+1/Buccaneer's/Byakko/Lithe

Obvious improvements would be first getting Loki's Kaftan, Aias Bonnet and Hachiryu Kote (ahahaha...). Any other suggestions on my WS set?


1. Regarding the crit hit bonus on Jupiter's Staff, does that carry over to ranged weapons?

2. Should I dump my Amemet+1 for a Nifty Mantle? 15RATT/2STR vs 5DEX.

[Kirschy]

Also, have people tested and found that the crit damage increases are applied multiplicatively instead of additively?

The conclusive test would be using ranged shots in Abyssea /w RR + SS on /w capped attack. (Not hard to do /w meds/berserk.) If no one gets around to it tonite, I'll do it myself. But from my parses it works perfectly toward being additive.

Abyssea-Dem has lizards which check EP/DC right near the starting conflux so they work perfectly imo~

[Scrooge]

Curious how your accuracy is on Jishnu's Radiance with landing all three hits?

[Byrthnoth]

The conclusive test would be using ranged shots in Abyssea /w RR + SS on /w capped attack. (Not hard to do /w meds/berserk.) If no one gets around to it tonite, I'll do it myself. But from my parses it works perfectly toward being additive.

Abyssea-Dem has lizards which check EP/DC right near the starting conflux so they work perfectly imo~

I have also found them to be additive. Like, my gear seems to add to my trait (confirmed on level 1 stuff) which seems to add to my atma (max damage dagger hit in Abyssea is what I'd predict). As far as I can tell it's all summed into one Crit Hit Damage Bonus term.

[FailureMidgard]

Also, have people tested and found that the crit damage increases are applied multiplicatively instead of additively?

My math has them additive, it just isn't intuitive how I wrote it out. The 1.3 I originally used that I changed to 1.5 is the pdif bump component (2.0>3.0 is a 1.5 multiplier). This is by all accounts how that is calculated, which is then multiplied once by the sum of the +critical hit damage (you'll see 1.3 and 1.6s in my math).

Edit: to clarify, in:
D*.25 + D*.75*1.95 = D(.25+1.4625) = D(1.7125)
D is the base noncrit damage
.25 is the chance to not crit
.75 is the chance to crit
1.95 is 1.5*1.3, or, base dmg*1.5 is what you get going from 2.0 to 3.0 pdif, multiply that by 1.3 for RR. Since multiplication is associative, you can combine the 1.5 and 1.3 into 1.95.

And note that for RR+SS I wrote:
D*.35 + D*.65*1.5*1.6 = D(.35+1.56) = D(1.91)
1.5 is still pdif, 1.6 is the 1+.3+.3 for RR+SS

[Atoreis]

Few things:
1. GH is probably 20%. Kilik said many times he parsed 74% with it and he should 54% w/o it.
2. Failure how you getting base 65% crit rate?
3. NIN have +15-26% increase in crit dmg in equip. Remember this doing aby maths.
3. Malacite stop posting or at least when you write something read it 20 times and try to think if its really what you want to post.

[Atoreis]

Two things from my experience with Bria and Cara:
1. Cara can make summer -> winter and sometimes she likes to do it a lot in 1 fight. She can do dispelga -> mute -> Tornado II -> aero V easily so be prepare if you low man to take some on chest. Winter also do stun and dispel one buff. It can dispell shadows and finish Aero V before stun wears off. Dont lowman it in windsday unless you have 50% mdt. I once got stunned + dispelled shadows and got hit by 3600 aero V with shell IV up.
2. Maybe it was mentioned its more fun then something important but Mercurial strike from Bria always do 111,222,333,444,555,666,777,888,999,1111 and if you got hit by 777 all your abilities gonna be ready to use (all recasts will be up).

[FailureMidgard]

Few things:
1. GH is probably 20%. Kilik said many times he parsed 74% with it and he should 54% w/o it.

Innin, Iga Dochugappa. RR is Major and gives 30%, generally accepted. Everything else that gives 30 @ Major is 10 @ Minor. Until solid testing is done (with a proper sample size), it seems like a safe assumption. I'm merely assuming at the moment that Kilik probably used Innin as a DD-nin, because I sure as fuck would...as a side note, I'm more intrigued by his crit rate being that low, almost as if there's a cap to critical hit rate at 75%. Or he coulda had issues with mobs turning/etc with Innin, which artificially lowered his critical hit rate.

2. Failure how you getting base 65% crit rate?

He claimed ~75, and I'm assuming a minor critical hit rate is +10%.

3. NIN have +15-26% increase in crit dmg in equip. Remember this doing aby maths.

I thought about this after, but had no idea what gear he was using. There's ranged, offhand, body, neck as far as I know though...Loki's is almost definitely best in slot...no idea on Katana, seems like it'd be a poor choice though compared to various trial Katanas, ranged item maybe, neck maybe, but gorget or even Torque should still give it a run for it's money...Wiki says neck is only 2%, which is kinda lackluster.

[Atoreis]

Innin, Iga Dochugappa. RR is Major and gives 30%, generally accepted. Everything else that gives 30 @ Major is 10 @ Minor. Until solid testing is done (with a proper sample size), it seems like a safe assumption. I'm merely assuming at the moment that Kilik probably used Innin as a DD-nin, because I sure as fuck would...as a side note, I'm more intrigued by his crit rate being that low, almost as if there's a cap to critical hit rate at 75%. Or he coulda had issues with mobs turning/etc with Innin, which artificially lowered his critical hit rate.



He claimed ~75, and I'm assuming a minor critical hit rate is +10%.



I thought about this after, but had no idea what gear he was using. There's ranged, offhand, body, neck as far as I know though...Loki's is almost definitely best in slot...no idea on Katana, seems like it'd be a poor choice though compared to various trial Katanas, ranged item maybe, neck maybe, but gorget or even Torque should still give it a run for it's money...Wiki says neck is only 2%, which is kinda lackluster.

I have a feeling Kilik is not to using Innin cuz he has too much hate with Kannagi and simply has no chance to use it. I might be wrong tho.
Neck 2% is tested by me Kamome is definietly best katana offhand imo. It has 8 acc 8 att 10% crit dmg and very good dps and low daley. I hardly can find anything from trail that can beat it (well i cant find anything :D). Crit equip I would use for Blade: hi is Kamome(10%) Loki's (5%) Ammo (5%) back (3%) and im considering ASA pants with 3%crit dmg 2%da and they ahve also +2AGI.

[FailureMidgard]

I have a feeling Kilik is not to using Innin cuz he has too much hate with Kannagi and simply has no chance to use it. I might be wrong tho.
Neck 2% is tested by me Kamome is definietly best katana offhand imo. It has 8 acc 8 att 10% crit dmg and very good dps and low daley. I hardly can find anything from trail that can beat it (well i cant find anything :D). Crit equip I would use for Blade: hi is Kamome(10%) Loki's (5%) Ammo (5%) back (3%) and im considering ASA pants with 3%crit dmg 2%da and they ahve also +2AGI.

Back is not crit damage, it is just crit chance. I'm curious how you tested this also, as it seems like it'd take quite a while unless you actually tested it with thrown weapons...if you didn't test with thrown weapons, I'd strongly recommend re-testing that. DA+7 Katana as far as I know destroys Kamome and is the best OH in the game (someone can correct me if I'm wrong), and OAT may also?

[Atoreis]

Cavaros mantle not Iga and I have no math (yet) but im fairly sure in abyssea da+9 katana wont beat Kamome.

EDIT: Made math and da+9% is FFFFAAAAARRRR behind Kamome and i assumed only 57% crit rate and RR+SS which both favor da+9%. I think by eyeballing you underestimate 180 daley on kamome vs 242 on da9% and on those daleys differences in TP gain is very low. Its 226 vs 195 daley (after dual wield) and difference in TP gain per hit is like 0.1 resulting in more WS frequency on Kamome (even 9% da wont close the gap) and much more hits resulting in much higher dmg from melee.

[FailureMidgard]

I'd like to see your testing, because I'm not even convinced Kamome works...see Senjuin which wouldn't even give you critchance. I'd actually be really surprised if Kamome even affects mainhand hits when wielded in the offhand...and you're underrating the DA by a longshot. I'd like to see your math/testing though.

[Scrooge]

I'd like to see your testing, because I'm not even convinced Kamome works...see Senjuin which wouldn't even give you critchance. I'd actually be really surprised if Kamome even affects mainhand hits when wielded in the offhand...and you're underrating the DA by a longshot. I'd like to see your math/testing though.

Kamome works. I don't know why you wouldn't assume it works as advertised, it'd be way more similar to X's Knife than Senjuinrikio.

Kamome tested with ranged 165 normal crit => 181 crit.

Kilik couldn't get his high numbers unless it did work, and if it works on ranged attacks I don't see how it could possibly not work on main hand.

[Kilik]

Kilik                      381694    35.81 %     143/1    99.31 %    171/4223  2669.19
 - Blade: Hi               381694   100.00 %     143/1    99.31 %    171/4223  2669.19

Used RR+SS atmas. Same mobs (Blood Bat in Tahrongi) same buffs (pizza +1, 2x minuets, zerk/warcry whenever timers were up, stalwarts everytime it wore off and I had one). Used Innin and tried to get the bonus from it whenever I could, but not always possible because I pull hate or am only person on the mob. I never ws'd below 50-60% unless another melee and I ws'd at same time. The 171 dmg was almost another miss. I got 1 tp return from landing a single DA hit.

Stopped at 143 ws since thats the total number of Hi's my last post had.

In before, youre lying, you didnt have same buffs, you ws'd too low, something else to skew the parse.

[Malacite]

Really, your entire premise is wrong, though again not sure on how to quantify regain, and not gonna bother....but STR is likely doing close to nothing on 1handers with +40 STR already. You can argue for attack, but the fact of the matter is that critrate and critdamage both get better relative to attack the lower pdif becomes - so really, if we say pdif isn't capped, the crit is going to gain even more than the strength. DA and regain are both nice, but agility is an actual mod (vs STR only being fSTR which should be capped), which is good....and counter is a nice benefit for anyone who isn't keeping up shadows 100% of the time with just Ni.

My argument for VV was more for the Double Attack & Regain to increase WS frequency while also contributing to overall damage. Sanguine Scythe still rocks Gnarled Horn anyway. And as for my other comment, I simply meant that Gnarled Horn would be more useful for a MNK (soloing/tanking) since NIN can't counter anyway.

Besides weren't WSC ruled out as side-thing a long time ago with regards to WS performance? As in they help, but there's better stats you could focus on? I know Abyssea really skews things with the crazy as hell stat buffs so it's kinda confusing now.