Final Form Magian Weapons

[Atoreis]

I'd like to see your testing, because I'm not even convinced Kamome works...see Senjuin which wouldn't even give you critchance. I'd actually be really surprised if Kamome even affects mainhand hits when wielded in the offhand...and you're underrating the DA by a longshot. I'd like to see your math/testing though.

My testing of 2% on neck is done with ranged attack and its stated on talk page at wiki. I did Kamome same way but only for myself to confrim its 10% for myself. Tried to check Ammo (obviously not with ranged) and got crit with at least 4% increase so I belive its actually 5% and I have no luck on doing max. I have very good chart made to calculate dmg and OAT is much closer to Kamome still lose but da9% is behind by like 15%. You dont need to belive me, its really more for me then anyone else

[Scrooge]

I've done 5% on Qirmiz Tathlum and never anything higher.

[Langly]

Everything I've drummed up has Kamome winning with as low as 24% crit rate (didn't bother assuming lower though there might be reason to if I wanted to create a situation where the DA+9 katana wins). It wins by tenths of a digit. So it's close enough to say they're nearly identical, but if you're looking for the superior offhand it seems kamome is it.

[orson]

Primal Rend is the primary BST weaponskill used and it's magical in nature. Much like Wildfire is an improved Leaden Salute, it wouldn't surprise me if Cloudsplitter is an improvement on Primal Rend.

Granted that 1 handed axes have always been BST-oriented (Guttler, Aymur) for the purposes of "top tier" weaponry, it'd be no surprise if SE designed the weaponskill to favor BST over WAR even though both can use the weapon.

The only difference we have this time around is that SE is giving WAR some option to choose between Farsha tied to a magic WS and Ukonvasara which is tied to Ukko's Fury.

Late but still figured I'd respond.

If the mods are Str/Mnd with MAB as a multiplier Bst and War will be about tied on the damage of the WS. So again there's no reason it's slanted in favor of Bst and actually War would still do more damage with that Axe and/or WS then a Bst would (total damage is completely different but that's not the point I'm making.) I think what people are confusing is whether Bst should have priority over War for something like a Farsha and that's just personal opinion.

I haven't done the calculations myself but I've read that at 90 War/Nin will be better off dual wielding in almost all cases. I'm pretty sure even now damage wise it's really close and sometimes even better to dual wield over 2-handed as a War/Nin with the correct set up. So once level 90 hits there will be a reason for hardcore Wars to look at getting a Farsha unless the WS is complete crap.

[Thorny]

It's an elemental ws, it'd have to be unholy to even be competitive seeing as you're not going to be using MAB atmas on WAR.

[orson]

I guess on that point then it's really neither Bst or War that would really be wanting to use the WS except maybe outside Abyssea. Given that wouldn't it be worth using for aftermath and spamming Rampage in between? Farsha should probably be the best main hand axe War can get, I would think. Possibly paired up with the DA Axe?

[Thorny]

Aftermath only lasts 30 seconds at 100 tp, you're not going to be using it for that either probably. It could still be a good mainhand due to damage/delay, ridill is universal offhand.

[macross]

Gnarled horn is more than 10% crit chance for sure. 15-20% perhaps. I had a long parse but stupid power outage wiped it all. Normally I have 59% crit on mnk, wearing hachibody (5%) crit. Was parsing 77% vs VT funguar and NM armillia. 85% counter too, using RR + GH.

[FailureMidgard]

Well, looks like Gnarled Horn is def more crit than I guessed from multiple sources...I'm actually currently wondering if its mis-labeled like some other Atmas were and SE didn't catch it, and is actually Major and 30%...furthermore, I'm currently wondering if there's a critrate cap at ~75%. If someone is really bored, they should do a parse with no atma, then with Gnarled Horn, and see if you're gaining only 15-20% crit, or a full 30. I'll be out most the day~

[Rehn]

Two things from my experience with Bria and Cara:
1. Cara can make summer -> winter and sometimes she likes to do it a lot in 1 fight. She can do dispelga -> mute -> Tornado II -> aero V easily so be prepare if you low man to take some on chest. Winter also do stun and dispel one buff. It can dispell shadows and finish Aero V before stun wears off. Dont lowman it in windsday unless you have 50% mdt. I once got stunned + dispelled shadows and got hit by 3600 aero V with shell IV up.
2. Maybe it was mentioned its more fun then something important but Mercurial strike from Bria always do 111,222,333,444,555,666,777,888,999,1111 and if you got hit by 777 all your abilities gonna be ready to use (all recasts will be up).

Adding on to this, if he manages a 1111 off mercurial strike, he will immediately meikyo shisui > colossal slamx3, even if he had used up 2 hour before.

[Fiendishone]

Ok, granted ive been playing around with Jishnu's Radiance and have been pleased with the numbers so I have some pretty basic questions regarding overall improvement in my build.

Current Build: Razed/Stout Atma

Mekki/Grip/Harrier+1/ammo
Gnadbhod's/Torque/Thunder/Delta
Osode/Enkidu's/Jupiter/Rajas
Amemet+1/Buccaneer's/Byakko/Lithe

Obvious improvements would be first getting Loki's Kaftan, Aias Bonnet and Hachiryu Kote (ahahaha...). Any other suggestions on my WS set?


1. Regarding the crit hit bonus on Jupiter's Staff, does that carry over to ranged weapons?

2. Should I dump my Amemet+1 for a Nifty Mantle? 15RATT/2STR vs 5DEX.

LS buddy just finished his +1 as well and was trying to figure out some ws gear, and noticed a good waist option in Cuculain's Belt. Also was curious himself about the Jupiter's Staff option, and if it does apply, I would also think a Claymore Grip would be a good option perhaps. Back could either go with Nifty or maybe even Cuculain's Mantle.

[Velecic]

On the note of gear choices (I'm the person Fiend is referring to) I have some questions if someone knows. Obviously inside abyssea for the following (I guess this could go in the random question thread but most of it is related to Jishnu's Radiance) :

For Warrior, Brave Grip vs. Pole Grip? for that matter brave grip on RNG? Jupiter's Staff work on ranged? Nifty Mantle vs Amemet+1? Could someone good with formulas work out which would work better for the WS? I'm guessing it matters if you are ranged attack capped or not, so dependant on what you're fighting / buffs in pt? How about the mantle off Raskovnik with Crit Dmg+? Mulling over gearsets for RNG as well as WAR stuff.

Also, would something like Zahak's Mail be worth it for the crit rate or are you already going to cap with RR inside abyssea making +crit% from gear useless?

[Scrooge]

Kilik                      381694    35.81 %     143/1    99.31 %    171/4223  2669.19
 - Blade: Hi               381694   100.00 %     143/1    99.31 %    171/4223  2669.19

Used RR+SS atmas. Same mobs (Blood Bat in Tahrongi) same buffs (pizza +1, 2x minuets, zerk/warcry whenever timers were up, stalwarts everytime it wore off and I had one). Used Innin and tried to get the bonus from it whenever I could, but not always possible because I pull hate or am only person on the mob. I never ws'd below 50-60% unless another melee and I ws'd at same time. The 171 dmg was almost another miss. I got 1 tp return from landing a single DA hit.

Stopped at 143 ws since thats the total number of Hi's my last post had.

In before, youre lying, you didnt have same buffs, you ws'd too low, something else to skew the parse.

Not surprised Gnarled Horn did better. Even if you assume GH's crit rate+ is only 10% or you're only getting effective 10% because any possible guessed crit rate cap, the 50 agi + 10% crit rate will beat Sanguine Scythe by a fair margin, after you factor in the rest of your gear. If it's higher crit rate, it's only gonna do way better.

Curious what your crit rate was on both those parses though.

[Kojack]

I don't have any formula's for you however I've noticed the level 85 Dex Gyrfalcon has crit. rate +. I think it's safe to say crit rate is crit rate and a ranged atk. crit rate doesn't exist. Then again KS30 weapons only affect the weapons themselves. Guess im just blabbing..

[Velecic]

I don't have any formula's for you however I've noticed the level 85 Dex Gyrfalcon has crit. rate +. I think it's safe to say crit rate is crit rate and a ranged atk. crit rate doesn't exist. Then again KS30 weapons only affect the weapons themselves. Guess im just blabbing..

Well RR def affects ranged crits (obviously) so wondering if crit+ from other gear like jupiter's would work. Guess I'd have to go parse a bunch of shots on rng lol. I'm not sure if I even have a working parser, but i have a low delay xbow I could get a big sample size with relatively fast if I bum a couple ls mates.

[Kirschy]

I'm about to start an event, so I can't make a nice post /w pictures and such atm. So I'll post something better later.

SS + RR + Kamome is 50% crit damage bonus
SS + RR is 50% crit damage bonus
SS is still 30% crit damage bonus
RR is still 30% crit damage bonus
RR + Kamome is 40% crit damage bonus

Seems the crit damage bonus is capped at 50%~ I think it explains a few things we've been noticing. I still have no clue why my parse showed crit damage @ ~20% increase using SS over VV. This data says it should be ~15%.

[Scrooge]

Well, that pretty much kicks Sanguine Scythe in the nuts for anything you don't specifically need an HP atma for.

[Byrthnoth]

Or you go RR/SS and offhand the OAT Katana to increase your WS frequency?

[barber2006]

I'm about to start an event, so I can't make a nice post /w pictures and such atm. So I'll post something better later.

SS + RR + Kamome is 50% crit damage bonus
SS + RR is 50% crit damage bonus
SS is still 30% crit damage bonus
RR is still 30% crit damage bonus
RR + Kamome is 40% crit damage bonus

Seems the crit damage bonus is capped at 50%~ I think it explains a few things we've been noticing. I still have no clue why my parse showed crit damage @ ~20% increase using SS over VV. This data says it should be ~15%.

So glad I don't have to put the abyssea Dark Ixion on my to-do list now.

[Thorny]

So glad I don't have to put the abyssea Dark Ixion on my to-do list now.

Pretty sure that just means you should be using gnarled horn or voracious violet over sanguine scythe.