Final Form Magian Weapons

[Fiendishone]

That scythe looks like its straight outta Soul Calibur.

[Kellanved]

452*0.5=226daley for Kannagi/Oat

Echu+1 is actually 232 delay, not 242.

[Atoreis]

Echu+1 is actually 232 delay, not 242.

ewww my bad then. Its still gonna lose with kamome tho but by lower margin.
My virtual 5 min parse still shows 23 WS for both Kamome and OAT. Kamome still wins on my chart by 8.5%.

[FailureMidgard]

Nonsense

There's no way the dot portion SS gets is gonna overcome the ws boost + dot boost off GH together.

First off, my bad, thought it was a 50% agi mod, so that's what I went with, briefly browsed the thread, and it seemed like a good enough guess. Don't sit here and act like the fucking 4 base dmg I was off is some huge deal worth of the comment you made. Furthermore, perhaps I misunderstood the first paragraph and focused too much on the comment I quoted above; anyway, the split has to do with that part of your post I meant to quote, but got too snip-happy I guess. Sadly for you, you've just shown that you get a 6.34% increase to 35% of your damage, for a net gain of 2.22% total damage. As opposed to SSvsGH being (1.91-1.71)/1.71=an 11% increase to 65% of your damage, or 7.5% total damage increase. If there were no cap, SS is in fact more than 3 times the damage gain of GH. BTW, I got the 35/65 split off of what Kilik was parsing, if you care, even with :Hi.

With the critdmg cap that we now know about, as I already said, this is a pointless discussion, because you can cap critdamage with RR alone, so quite obviously SS is a pretty fucking worthless atma for nin. But you're still wrong, and my original math that was clearly based on incorrect assumptions was dead on - and I was entirely right to discount the agility, which is quite inferior to other stats. You'd need way more agility to even come close to matching the theoretical gain otherwise.

[Malacite]

^ so in light of said crit cap, what is the best 2ndary atma for NIN? VV?

[Kilik]

For Hi: Gnarled Horn. For Jin: VV (i think)

[Scrooge]

Crap

Try reading the entire post as a whole. Or the entire discussion for that matter. Follow along:

1. Kirschy's findings.
2. I made a comment that SS is useless unless you're specifically after HP.
3. Someone implied RR/SS/Enchu+1 would still be better.
4. I said that's not true, one of my points being that even under an ideal situation where there was no cap on Crit DMG, and GH is assumed to only grant 10% crit rate -- a situation that is no longer assumed to be correct and HEAVILY favors SS -- GH would still beat SS on Blade: Hi dmg alone.
5. Given that, when you factor in Kirschy's findings, GH would blow it away.

I never stated GH would beat SS in TOTAL dmg if you assumed no crit dmg cap. Read the post from top to bottom. I implied GH would beat SS in TOTAL dmg after you factor in Kirschy's findings that makes SS crap, which it is. That you could not overcome the WS dmg boost GH would give you by SS DoT increase when it's only giving you effectively +15% after you factor in Qirmiz Tathlum. Which any non-retarded NIN would full time anyway.

The problem with you is that you're trying to "snip" parts of my post, take it out of context, then tell me I'm wrong. My whole deal with GH still beating SS under any incorrect circumstances was merely one way I was trying to illustrate that SS is trash. You're trying to make it out as if it's my life's creed.

anyway, the split has to do with that part of your post I meant to quote

That's a load of crap. You specifically quoted only a section of my comments where I specifically said for Blade: Hi dmg. Then you specifically replied to that portion of the quote when you referenced those numbers "being moot". Now you wanna back pedal and say you thought I was referring to total dmg.

Sadly for you, you've just shown that you get a 6.34% increase to 35% of your damage, for a net gain of 2.22% total damage. As opposed to SSvsGH being (1.91-1.71)/1.71=an 11% increase to 65% of your damage, or 7.5% total damage increase. If there were no cap, SS is in fact more than 3 times the damage gain of GH. BTW, I got the 35/65 split off of what Kilik was parsing, if you care, even with :Hi.

No. I've shown, like I said earlier, that even under incorrect assumptions that FAVOR SS, GH would still beat it on Blade: Hi dmg.

You do the math for GH vs SS under the situation that is currently accepted, and the numbers increase by a lot. Go ahead, do it out.

SS = 2976
AGI 189
fTP 5.1
CritRate 0.65
CritDmg 0.5

GH = 3675
AGI 239
fTP 5.1
CritRate 0.75
CritDmg 0.5

That's what? Roughly 23% on WS dmg. That's an 8% increase in total dmg, not a 2%.

[Atoreis]

For Hi: Gnarled Horn. For Jin: VV (i think)

^this, btw if someone wondering how potent is jin in abyssea. My record with Sekka+1 with agi+8 and kamome off hand with RR+VV is 4005 on T fly (just berserk). My jin build lacks 28 combined str and dex so it could be a little higher.

[ClarkSammich]

Since it's in the same vein (sort of) as what has been being discussed:
Is there an established crit rate cap, and does the base crit chance on a WS that can crit count toward the cap?
i.e. Say the cap is 75% from dDEX/atma/gear, and rampage has a 10% crit rate bonus at 100% (no idea if it does, just making numbers up.) Would the 10% bonus from WS count toward that 75% cap, or exceed it?

[Kilik]

If there is a crit rate cap, it is atleast 81%. In 2 different Tahrongi runs, my crit rate for our Chloris fights (first run was 7 fights, second was 5 fights) was between 80% and 81%. This is with me on NIN using Innin, but missing AF3 back piece. Throughout the rest of the run my crit rate is between 75% and 77%. We have 3 melee on our Chloris fights and have had the other 2 melee on one side and me on the other. If either of them pulls hate off me I get the Innin bonus, but I'm not getting it the majority of the time since I pull hate.

Edit: I mention the positioning in our fight because getting the bonus from Innin during the Chloris fights is the only reason I can think of that would make my crit rate go up to 80 when it doesn't do it for any other mobs in that zone.

[Byrthnoth]

I have the Atmas in question, and I'll try to sneak in somewhere with Gnarled Horn + Razed Ruins later on either a klubbing WAR (lol) or my dancer to up my sample size quickly.

[ClarkSammich]

I completely forgot about innin despite, you know, playing NIN.
Innin is allegedly +30% at first too, no? I would imagine there has to be a cap somewhere.
Anyway what I'm getting at is, if there's a cap and and WS have a crit chance bonus at 100%TP, it might be possible to ditch stuff like kaftan/qirmiz tathlum in favor of something better.

[Kilik]

Well qirmiz and kaftan add to crit damage not crit rate so you would still want those for damage increase

[ClarkSammich]

Fucking. Yeah you're right, brain failed.

[vagus]

Ukko's Fury is which element? Trying to figure out which sea torque to get. Wildfyre is fire based it seems, so flame gorget?

[arus2001]

You go by its SC properties. Though, since I don't see 'em listed on otherwiki, I couldn't tell you specifically. Plus I'm fuzzy if "Light" or "Darkness" in terms of L3 will allow four gorgets or if you'll have to default to L1 or L2 combinations. Was actually something a friend was wondering about with CDC, saying he didn't feel his Breeze Gorget was helping, but didn't have any of the L2 ones to compare.

[Plow]

light and dark don't allow 4 elements to work, they allow light and dark to work

[Motenten]

From what I remember, if it's like Light + Fragmentation properties, you can use Light/Thunder/Wind gorgets, but Flame won't work.

[hexagram23]

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...3f1600075f.jpg

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...3f16000760.jpg

thought this was pretty neat. colibri.

What body piece is that?

[Andradi]

Timarli, 2% haste.