Final Form Magian Weapons

[Kidnoftle]

It doesn't matter if a job is useful or not, upgrading a job is a personal choice not what the bg flavor of the month says someone should do.

I didn't realize the last 2 years were only a month... time is fucking slow. Pld is useless at the point in the game for 99% of game content. It's possible SE releases a mob where it *might* be useful but as the game mechanics work now there is literally nothing that differentiates it from other jobs besides the ability to compensate for shitty healers.

[Pebe]

Just to clarify obsidian, i asked the question

Anyway, ty all very much on your insight, greatly appreciate it.

Edit: On a side note, good thing about shield is you don't have do all those annoying low levels NMs + VNMs if the information you guys gave above is correct. That is always a plus.... ALWAYS..... Burn in hell Hoverpot.... burn in hell....

[Cursed]

Unless Size 6 shields have better block rate and better dmg mitigation than size 5 shields (Aegis), which they might, the new empyrean shield is a joke.
If it does indeed beat Aegis on block rate and dmg mitigation, then what use is the 25% convert mp on successful block?
Only thing that seems remotely useful on the empyrean shield is the High base defense (40) and even the VIT20 beats the 25% Mp convert.
Of course, there is possibility that the calculation of converted DMG to MP is based on dmg before block proc. Even if that is indeed the case, when does PLD have mp issues in abyssea?
So again, it goes back to what Size 6 actually offers. If it gets a higher block rate than 65%, everything I said above is moot, and its superior to Aegis for blood tanking, and inferior for blink tanking and eating agas.

EDIT: Come to think of it, and taking into account how worthless all my relics are compared to their empyrean counterparts, I'm going to go ahead and blindly say that the Empyrean Shield Size 6 will have 95% proc rate without reprisal and mitigate 100% dmg on blocks, while converting the dmg of the same hit unblocked to mp.

[Darkmagi]

Honestly pld is pretty much useless in FFXI and has only been getting worse. It is also far more difficult to obtain an aegis than an Empyrean shield as far as I can tell. Just upgrade whichever looks better, because that's honestly all PLD is "good" for in this game anymore.

[Cursed]

Its possible that end game content will be released outside Abyssea, which will probably put PLD right back where it was.
How rewarding the content will be will determine if PLD is anything more than a mime in shiny armor standing in whitegate/port jeuno.
They also really fucked us on the job emotes...

[Kirschy]

Its possible that end game content will be released outside Abyssea, which will probably put PLD right back where it was.
How rewarding the content will be will determine if PLD is anything more than a mime in shiny armor standing in whitegate/port jeuno.
They also really fucked us on the job emotes...

That's the point most people are trying to make. PLD was mostly useless for any activity before Abyssea, so there's little hope it'll be useful in activities released after.

[Hitoseijuro]

That's the point most people are trying to make. PLD was mostly useless for any activity before Abyssea, so there's little hope it'll be useful in activities released after.

I personally would welcome new harder content outside of abyssea. A lot of the stats on gear is pretty useless for the most part where if it was pre-abyssea would be more worthy than it is now. Unless your gear has haste/stp/DA/crit damage/crit rate/attack(for those w/o berserk or buffs for w/e reason) your stats are doing nothing since cruor/atmas are pretty much capping you on 95% of everything inside abyssea.

[Kirschy]

I personally would welcome new harder content outside of abyssea. A lot of the stats on gear is pretty useless for the most part where if it was pre-abyssea would be more worthy than it is now. Unless your gear has haste/stp/DA/crit damage/crit rate/attack(for those w/o berserk or buffs for w/e reason) your stats are doing nothing since cruor/atmas are pretty much capping you on 95% of everything inside abyssea.

I'm sure everyone would welcome additional content outside Abyssea for later updates. Unfortunately unless you drastically change game mechanics a good LS is rarely going to need a PLD for any event.

[Hitoseijuro]

I'm sure everyone would welcome additional content outside Abyssea for later updates. Unfortunately unless you drastically change game mechanics a good LS is rarely going to need a PLD for any event.

Sad, but true. However, I dont think LS brought PLDs to most events because they *needed* as much as it was just fun to be on. Although I'm sure there are examples out there to prove contradicting as well heh...

Im glad SE finally took the time to hear some of our complaints about game content and changed it, its a good *start*. I wish the things they fixed though, didnt also help something already overally broken. I guess the community is partially to blame for half of SEs mistakes. It doesnt matter what they give or take, because someone will always complain about what *they* wanted vs what was best overall for the specific scenerio to get.

[Cursed]

That's the point most people are trying to make. PLD was mostly useless for any activity before Abyssea, so there's little hope it'll be useful in activities released after.

Nah. That's an overstatement. PLD wasn't useless pre-abyssea.
Maybe a lot of linkshells you know liked using nin-mnk-war-drk-sam-blu tanks, but there were more using PLDs for a reason. and it wasn't always because they sucked and needed the safety net.

[Khajit]

Sometimes it was because the pld refused to realize they weren't really a relevant tank anymore.

[Neisan]

No, PLD really was mostly useless. Most people used PLD due to mindset, not because it was an efficient tank/necessary. You forgot Rdm pre nerf on your list.

[Kirschy]

Nah. That's an overstatement. PLD wasn't useless pre-abyssea.
Maybe a lot of linkshells you know liked using nin-mnk-war-drk-sam-blu tanks, but there were more using PLDs for a reason. and it wasn't always because they sucked and needed the safety net.

It's not much an overstatement. What reason would a shell use a PLD if they didn't suck and/or weren't using it as a safety net? I have nothing against PLD, as I have a well-geared 85 PLD and a great playstyle to back it up. But like Hitosuijuro said, aside from trying to have some fun /w worn-out content, it wasn't efficient. It's not hard for any good DD cap out hate through simple melee damage, and it's not hard for any good DD to mitigate damage taken through PDT/MDT sets and abilities like Seigan and Utsu. Add in decent mages and a PLD just has nothing to offer~

[Byrthnoth]

If you are going to have a bad player tank, Paladin is the best choice.
If you are going to have bad support backing up your tank, Paladin is the best choice.
If you're going to use stupid strategies (having five PUPs melee Dawon), then Paladin is the best choice.

Like Ninja, Paladin is capable of compensating for fail inherent in the rest of the alliance, so good players leveled it back when fail was even more common than now. That created a bunch of good players that were used to essentially soloing monsters with minimal support while DDs killed them. These players generally became leaders, and were used to/liked their central role, so it persisted past when it was necessary. It is still necessary for some shells, but a lot of shells need to just grow up and buy PDT sets for their DDs.

[Tsuko_Asura]

^By far the biggest contributing factor in PLD surviving as long as it has in more prominent linkshells. Leaders feeling like being "the PLD" makes them a stronger leader.

[Vincento]

I guess I don't understand why everyone is talking about Pld like they want to bring them to everything. I like not having a need for a Pld...

[Valient]

When I saw that new shield my first thought about it was "good for solo". Based on the discussion here, that's all PLD is going to be doing. I wouldn't be surprised if size 6 will be buckler block rate with mitigation of a kite. That would make the convert MP semi viable.

I enjoy tanking on most any job I have leveled. Each job brings their own advantages and disadvantages. Unfortunately for PLD right now it's ability to hold hate against DDs going full out is impossible. When I'm running around on PLD I'm still getting invites to join Abyssea PUG exp groups. This is probably because they know I'll be willing to be that first voke and will not be a drain on resources for idk how good this PUG mage is. But when I am personally low manning something I bring out my THF or MNK and just get the job done that way.

[Tribe]

Put your high horse cocks back in your pants.

While now with abyssea 99.9% of the content is easily Melee tanked because of stupid buffs / atma. BEFORE abyssea BEFORE 75+ Pld was needed for real endgame content. YES there were other good forms of tanks, Nin/Drk Rdm, ect but those tanks could not tank as efficiently as Pld. Pld at 75 when they got atonement could gear to be a DD, DD's are 75 had to *Try* to gear like a tank and it doesnt always work. Yes with enough cures Sam can tank DI / Khim but anyone who did endgame enough knows you cannot avoid one-shots. You cannot always have the tank topped off at 100%. Pld had so much more resilience, and the capacity to DD.

Paladin is a job in this game, every job in this game has a place. I dont even have pld unlocked im not defending it because I have it leveled, but jesus if someone enjoys playing Pld and wants to make that pld the best it can be, just answer their questions and help them obtain their goal, stop bashing people for enjoying the game.

In none 2-3 man situations in abyssea, During LS events with 12-18+ People there is no reason to tell someone they cant come on pld because the job is useless. unless your a pompus asshole.

[Dooom]

[QUOTE=Tribe;4289013BEFORE abyssea BEFORE 75+ Pld was needed for real endgame content. [/QUOTE]

Define real endgame please.

[Massimo]

BEFORE 75+ Pld was needed for real endgame content. YES there were other good forms of tanks, Nin/Drk Rdm, ect but those tanks could not tank as efficiently as Pld. Pld at 75 when they got atonement could gear to be a DD, DD's are 75 had to *Try* to gear like a tank and it doesnt always work. Yes with enough cures Sam can tank DI / Khim but anyone who did endgame enough knows you cannot avoid one-shots. You cannot always have the tank topped off at 100%. Pld had so much more resilience, and the capacity to DD.

Hahaha.