Final Form Magian Weapons

[Yugl]

I would agree with your allusion to history, but the moment you mentioned atonement, I began to disagree. NIN was definitely the tank of choice during the sky era prior to Utsusemi changes. PLD was nice before and briefly after that point, but it soon waned with the introduction of ToAU (And in some cases, CoP). However, the effectiveness, as you promptly mentioned, is irrelevant to answering a question. Either they answer or they don't and it ends at that. It's absurd (read: stupid) to suggest that one needs to justify the use of PLD before they can receive a response to PLD related questions. That's not to say that individuals are compelled to answer, but it does assert that they cannot answer. In short, typical retards (And some new ones) are taking two pages to bicker about the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of PLD as if it matters.

[Xera]

Define real endgame please.

Salvage and Dynamis, clearly.



Out of curiosity is PLD used on JoL now a days? I haven't done JoL in 2 years let alone since RDM nerf/Level Cap increase.

[TehKerm]

Define real endgame please.

I think he's referring to HNMs and Einherjar and Dynamis and lolsky/sea, which is now not endgame worthy, jus something to do in your spare time.

[Dooom]

I think he's referring to HNMs and Einherjar and Dynamis and lolsky/sea, which is now not endgame worthy, jus something to do in your spare time.

Can't really talk about HNM as I never spent my time camping, but even prior to the level cap I wasn't using plds on those except to let people scratch their "Let me come pld!!!!" itch. drk, pure DD (e.g. mnk, relying just on damage for hate and not spells or JA), and rdm all served us better - which is exactly what I was leading to. The idea that Abyssea or the level rise made paladin obsolete is wrong.

[Kirschy]

Put your high horse cocks back in your pants.

While now with abyssea 99.9% of the content is easily Melee tanked because of stupid buffs / atma. BEFORE abyssea BEFORE 75+ Pld was needed for real endgame content. YES there were other good forms of tanks, Nin/Drk Rdm, ect but those tanks could not tank as efficiently as Pld. Pld at 75 when they got atonement could gear to be a DD, DD's are 75 had to *Try* to gear like a tank and it doesnt always work. Yes with enough cures Sam can tank DI / Khim but anyone who did endgame enough knows you cannot avoid one-shots. You cannot always have the tank topped off at 100%. Pld had so much more resilience, and the capacity to DD.

Paladin is a job in this game, every job in this game has a place. I dont even have pld unlocked im not defending it because I have it leveled, but jesus if someone enjoys playing Pld and wants to make that pld the best it can be, just answer their questions and help them obtain their goal, stop bashing people for enjoying the game.

In none 2-3 man situations in abyssea, During LS events with 12-18+ People there is no reason to tell someone they cant come on pld because the job is useless. unless your a pompus asshole.

Again, even before Abyssea, PLD was not needed or useful to any good shell. There's not much to argue about, many shells used DD tanks the last few years and they efficiently farmed content without the use of PLDs proving that DD tanks with proper damage mitigation and PDT/MDT sets do indeed work. Khim and DI, among others were done with parties of 6 using DD tanks long before Abyssea existed. When you look at these glaring facts, it becomes obvious that there's no gain in efficiency by using a PLD.

It's been mentioned at least twice already that no one has a problem with someone who enjoys playing PLD. The problem is when people try to argue it's usefulness.

I don't want to shit up this thread anymore though, if you wanna continue this would be more than happy to in PMs~

[Taruking]

I don't think any HNMLS has successfully beaten PW without PLD tanks pre abyssea? Even if ppl somehow manage to figure a way out to counter Meteor AV is probably still best tanked by PLD before level cap raise/abyssea.

Easy way to make PLD useful again - nerf emnity generated by physical damage. Since SE nerfed RDM tanks I don't see why they can't do the same to melee tanks. The more ppl brag about DD tanks being superior to PLD, the more likely SE are going to adjust it.

[Cream Soda]

If that were the case, woulda been adjusted years ago

[Nightfyre]

Nerfing DD hate generation would probably bring back RDM tanking sooner than PLD, not to mention promoting BLU tanking. I don't think they could do it without fucking up non-NM type events or even EXPing though.

[Castellano]

why are we talking about how much pld sucks in the final form magian weapon thread

[TehKerm]

why are we talking about how much pld sucks in the final form magian weapon thread

was wondering same thing, still looking for information on the last 75 items needed to get the lvl 90 masa

[Taruking]

Well RDM only got the nerf stick recently, same case same situation.

The pattern should be obvious by now, at some point SE is going to make PLD the best endgame tank again, it's a simple way to keep players motivated in this game. The concept also applies to DD jobs.

[Siatdiat]

why are we talking about how much pld sucks in the final form magian weapon thread

That's an interesting question.

The better question is who cares who uses what for what since nothing in the game is really pushing the barrier atm. No one is failing at the ultimate goal of killing shit in Abyssea, unless they are straight up not trying.

[Eleven19]

lol I remember the days in my first sky/HNM shell before PLD subbed NIN, and we had NIN's tanking all of the sky gods with Arhats/earth staff for backup. Miss those days sometimes lol.

Game mechanics don't allow for PLD to be the best tanking job. PLD would have to take 1/3rd or 1/4th as much dmg in DD gear as other jobs while /war or some other sub other than /nin, and have their enmity cap set higher, or something silly like that. One thing I hated about this game is you need /nin for the.. shield job. Always felt kind of dumb to me.

I hope someone does in fact go out and finish the empyrean shield, I'd be interested to see if it does anything special for block rates. Do we know if the iron plates drop off of the old giants now? I heard there's new poppable ones in the hero's zones.

[Konda]

The hate cap makes pld suck more than anything. Having the same max hate cap as when the game came out and having pld stuck with cure4 and flash for main hate tools really screw things up when DDs are dropping numbers that are absolutely unheard of at lv75. (5k ukko's fury to "NMs" in abyssea etc)

If there was a way for PLD to exceed the hate cap (or remove it alltogether for PLD, it could be a viable tank again imo.

[Nightfyre]

The hate cap makes pld suck more than anything. Having the same max hate cap as when the game came out and having pld stuck with cure4 and flash for main hate tools really screw things up when DDs are dropping numbers that are absolutely unheard of at lv75. (5k ukko's fury to "NMs" in abyssea etc)

If there was a way for PLD to exceed the hate cap (or remove it alltogether for PLD, it could be a viable tank again imo.

Wouldn't be enough. There's no incentive for DDs not to tank, as long as the mob isn't running for the backline whoever deals the most damage is the best tank. DDs are more than capable of staying alive without being an MP sink at present, and I doubt SE can really do anything about that.

at some point SE is going to make PLD the best endgame tank again

Good luck with that.

[Taruking]

The hate cap makes pld suck more than anything. Having the same max hate cap as when the game came out and having pld stuck with cure4 and flash for main hate tools really screw things up when DDs are dropping numbers that are absolutely unheard of at lv75. (5k ukko's fury to "NMs" in abyssea etc)

If there was a way for PLD to exceed the hate cap (or remove it alltogether for PLD, it could be a viable tank again imo.

I don't think hate generation is the main reason DD tanks are chosen over PLDs. Melee tanks are used because they can deal damage AND hold hate at the same time. Ppl will continue to use melee tanks unless SE lift the hate cap of both PLD and supporting jobs.

Good luck with that.

Let's take a look at evolution of tank jobs over the past few years, shall we?
PLD/WAR -> NIN/RDK -> PLD/NIN, RDM/NIN -> melee tanks (including NIN)

And for DD jobs:
RNG -> WAR, MNK, NIN -> 2-h DD, esp SAM, WAR -> WAR, NIN and MNK back in the game

[Devinry]

was wondering same thing, still looking for information on the last 75 items needed to get the lvl 90 masa

75x Isgebind's hearts.

[Nightfyre]

Let's take a look at evolution of tank jobs over the past few years, shall we?
PLD/WAR -> NIN/RDK -> PLD/NIN, RDM/NIN -> melee tanks (including NIN)

And for DD jobs:
RNG -> WAR, MNK, NIN -> 2-h DD, esp SAM, WAR -> WAR, NIN and MNK back in the game

That's nice, now tell me how you could do it without breaking the game and/or promoting a different tank over PLD.

[Konda]

I don't think hate generation is the main reason DD tanks are chosen over PLDs. Melee tanks are used because they can deal damage AND hold hate at the same time. Ppl will continue to use melee tanks unless SE lift the hate cap of both PLD and supporting jobs.

If pld can maintain hate to a level above the current hate cap (which DD's would still be subject to), then the mob would never look at the DDs or the backline. This would allow fulltime Hasso among other things. If no PLD is there, no biggie, things would be just as they are now. A job trait or series of job traits for PLD to remove/raise the hate cap would surely put focus back on PLD tanking and DDs DDing without totally destroying the balance of the game in favour of PLD tanking with the same hate cap.

[Taruking]

Should probably stop derailing the thread lol.

That's nice, now tell me how you could do it without breaking the game and/or promoting a different tank over PLD.

Do what SE did to RDM hate spells, drop physcial damage CE. It won't revive RDM tank (does not hold hate or survive better than PLD), physical damage hate nerf is going to affect BLU too, if you want to go with CE BLU spells why not just stick to PLD?

If pld can maintain hate to a level above the current hate cap (which DD's would still be subject to), then the mob would never look at the DDs or the backline. This would allow fulltime Hasso among other things. If no PLD is there, no biggie, things would be just as they are now. A job trait or series of job traits for PLD to remove/raise the hate cap would surely put focus back on PLD tanking and DDs DDing without totally destroying the balance of the game in favour of PLD tanking with the same hate cap.

Replace PLD with another DD job and let melee bounce hate? If you worry about AOE damage, use a front line job capable of healing (DNC, BLU), either is better than a PLD.