Final Form Magian Weapons

[Obsidian]

I was thinking of Quietus when I thought it was split. Woops.

Looks like it'd be pretty respectable if geared right.

[Francisco]

Few things on the PLD discussion:

- Merits, Subtle Blow, improved gear (for instance, Usukane), higher combat skills, higher evasion, the 2H buff, the banishing of madrigal (because it was no longer needed), WHMs becoming much better (new JAs), Hasso and Seigan all contributed to the rise of DD Tanks. None of those are a "strategy change".

- The best gear was not widely available from 2004-2006. Waiting lists for Byakko's Haidate and Shura Togi was a mile long. Things started to change a lot with ToAU and Salvage.

- Pre-abyssea/pre-Solace, stick a MNK on Tiamat, Vrtra, PW or any other "difficult" (I use the term loosely)fight and let me know how it goes. Note, I've done shit like Cerberus and Chariots easily on MNK... Khimaria kinda sucked, Hydra really sucked, and I wouldn't touch a worm other than Fafnir/Nidhogg as MNK.

- One of PLDs strengths remains one of MNKs biggest weaknesses. Dealing with hate reset and generating enmity rapidly from a distance if needed.

- The best thing SE could do for PLD without breaking the game or killing DD tanks (which are incredibly useful), is giving PLD traits that make hate reset moves not apply to PLDs hate.

Hanuman comes to mind as a NM that, while easily handled by MNK+WHM+BLM can go bad fast if unlucky. Hanuman can use Magic Fruit, which resets hate and gives it increased attack speed. I once had my hate reset, and it proceeded to immediately cast Sleepga on the WHM and BLM, then run for them and rip apart the BLMs Stoneskin. The only option I had was to melee it until I got hate back, which caused it to use Spinning Claw, hitting the BLM for 900+ and killing him, and taking the WHM down pretty low as well. Not much you could do there, but PLD is good at dealing with that sort of shit.

[TehKerm]

Few things on the PLD discussion:

- Merits, Subtle Blow, improved gear (for instance, Usukane), higher combat skills, higher evasion, the 2H buff, the banishing of madrigal (because it was no longer needed), WHMs becoming much better (new JAs), Hasso and Seigan all contributed to the rise of DD Tanks. None of those are a "strategy change".

- The best gear was not widely available from 2004-2006. Waiting lists for Byakko's Haidate and Shura Togi was a mile long. Things started to change a lot with ToAU and Salvage.

- Pre-abyssea/pre-Solace, stick a MNK on Tiamat, Vrtra, PW or any other "difficult" (I use the term loosely)fight and let me know how it goes. Note, I've done shit like Cerberus and Chariots easily on MNK... Khimaria kinda sucked, Hydra really sucked, and I wouldn't touch a worm other than Fafnir/Nidhogg as MNK.

- One of PLDs strengths remains one of MNKs biggest weaknesses. Dealing with hate reset and generating enmity rapidly from a distance if needed.

- The best thing SE could do for PLD without breaking the game or killing DD tanks (which are incredibly useful), is giving PLD traits that make hate reset moves not apply to PLDs hate.

Hanuman comes to mind as a NM that, while easily handled by MNK+WHM+BLM can go bad fast if unlucky. Hanuman can use Magic Fruit, which resets hate and gives it increased attack speed. I once had my hate reset, and it proceeded to immediately cast Sleepga on the WHM and BLM, then run for them and rip apart the BLMs Stoneskin. The only option I had was to melee it until I got hate back, which caused it to use Spinning Claw, hitting the BLM for 900+ and killing him, and taking the WHM down pretty low as well. Not much you could do there, but PLD is good at dealing with that sort of shit.

Im not really the biggest fan of the DD tanking rage but ive come to accept it since abyssea, and even back in HNM days at 75 where we used SAMs to tank fafnir and such. But im old school, i like PLD tanks on things cause they can handle certain situations better than a DD can. I do dislike however that the fact with atmas and newer gear and such tanking with PLD has become quite stupid and useless even despite the fact that PLD gets some really awesome gear lately. Which is the same reason ive neglected to exp mine past 75 so far, it will just collect dust =/

[Malacite]

I don't see why SE doesn't just give PLD provoke already since nobody subs anything but NIN on it now anyways.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Few things on the PLD discussion:

- Merits, Subtle Blow, improved gear (for instance, Usukane), higher combat skills, higher evasion, the 2H buff, the banishing of madrigal (because it was no longer needed), WHMs becoming much better (new JAs), Hasso and Seigan all contributed to the rise of DD Tanks. None of those are a "strategy change".

- The best gear was not widely available from 2004-2006. Waiting lists for Byakko's Haidate and Shura Togi was a mile long. Things started to change a lot with ToAU and Salvage.

- Pre-abyssea/pre-Solace, stick a MNK on Tiamat, Vrtra, PW or any other "difficult" (I use the term loosely)fight and let me know how it goes. Note, I've done shit like Cerberus and Chariots easily on MNK... Khimaria kinda sucked, Hydra really sucked, and I wouldn't touch a worm other than Fafnir/Nidhogg as MNK.

- I'm not taking the time to calculate oldschool accuracy on every single job, but at the very least WAR could get ~420 Acc with sushi without the need for shit like Armada Hauberk. Not going to dignify the WHM JA comments, because that's just dumb. And no SAM JA made DD tanking possible. Also dumb.

- DD tanking wasn't possible because it took longer to get Byakko's Haidate. Gotcha.

- Ignoring the fact that most of what you listed didn't exist in before ToAU, extreme examples like Tiamat(which is one of the few exceptions to DD tanking in general) don't make your argument any more compelling.

- One of PLDs strengths remains one of MNKs biggest weaknesses. Dealing with hate reset and generating enmity rapidly from a distance if needed.

- The best thing SE could do for PLD without breaking the game or killing DD tanks (which are incredibly useful), is giving PLD traits that make hate reset moves not apply to PLDs hate.

Hanuman comes to mind as a NM that, while easily handled by MNK+WHM+BLM can go bad fast if unlucky. Hanuman can use Magic Fruit, which resets hate and gives it increased attack speed. I once had my hate reset, and it proceeded to immediately cast Sleepga on the WHM and BLM, then run for them and rip apart the BLMs Stoneskin. The only option I had was to melee it until I got hate back, which caused it to use Spinning Claw, hitting the BLM for 900+ and killing him, and taking the WHM down pretty low as well. Not much you could do there, but PLD is good at dealing with that sort of shit.

You should have had your WHM and BLM use a conflux. Pretty simple.

[Obsidian]

Boost and Perfect Counter are both good VE (so is Counterstance but that has a longer timer).

Kinda wonder why your mages were standing together in the first place.

[Karbuncle]

You should have had your WHM and BLM use a conflux. Pretty simple.

I hear its real simple to use a Conflux with a mob doing near 100-fists speed hitting you.

Spoiler: show

Then again, They could simply fight @ conflux, see the TP move being readied and immediately use the conflux, problem solved there too!

[Tsuko_Asura]

Why be sarcastic when you realized the answer in the same post?

[Nightfyre]

I don't see why SE doesn't just give PLD provoke already since nobody subs anything but NIN on it now anyways.

Because Provoke is all but useless in the situations where PLD even approaches being useful?

[Krenna]

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...uM/Gandiva.jpg

Confirming Kirschy's numbers for Jishnu's, 1.75 first hit with 60% dex mod, on Gandiva version

also, apparantly a naked level 90 Ranger isn't attack capped on level 1 bunnies. fuck. lol

[Deader2818]

Just wondering, Tsuko, how long have you been playing? Like, when did you start doing end game, etc.

[Tsuko_Asura]

I could guess a year, but I'd probably be wrong. I started actively participating in kings/Sky(simultaneously, I weaseled into the best LS on my server at the time as a gimpy BLM, not really sure how) when RMT learned how to kill shit up there, if that's indicative of anything.

[Cursed]

I could guess a year, but I'd probably be wrong. I started actively participating in kings/Sky(simultaneously, I weaseled into the best LS on my server at the time as a gimpy BLM, not really sure how) when RMT learned how to kill shit up there, if that's indicative of anything.

I can't tell if this a serious answer or another satirical response.

[Malacite]

I hear its real simple to use a Conflux with a mob doing near 100-fists speed hitting you.

Spoiler: show

Then again, They could simply fight @ conflux, see the TP move being readied and immediately use the conflux, problem solved there too!

Flash and/or Bind and run like hell?

[Tsuko_Asura]

I can't tell if this a serious answer or another satirical response.

The world may never know.

[Karbuncle]

Why be sarcastic when you realized the answer in the same post?

Its how i roll.

Hard and dumb.

Flash and/or Bind and run like hell?

I think hit or miss will still "Event skipped" a Conflux, no?

And IDK if that monkey is Immune to bind

[Tsuko_Asura]

Miss will still interrupt, but zoning when he readies shouldn't be an issue.

[Karbuncle]

Miss will still interrupt, but zoning when he readies shouldn't be an issue.

I know that, Was more toward Malacite on that one.

[Malacite]

Hmm, weird because I've used warps etc while a mob was on me and it still went through so long as it didn't actually land anything on me. I guess conflux are the exception.

[Vincento]

How is it possible that you're comparing a warp to npc text...what is this.. idkeven..

Nvm, just saw the sig. I understand.