Final Form Magian Weapons

[Mojo]

Hi doesn't change offhand effectiveness, it's all about atmas really. Razed Ruins + Gnarled Horn bring out the sexiness of Kamome while Apocalypse deters from the effectiveness of OA2-4.

[Byrthnoth]

OA2-4 is a piece of shit along every weapon path, except (arguably) dagger for Dancers. It's a pretty sure mark of someone who tries hard and doesn't understand game mechanics, but it's heartbreaking to explain to them exactly why the D34, 312 delay axe that they made over the last 3 months is such a piece of shit for their Warrior.

[Yugl]

People that would willingly cause harm to over one thousand wild animals have no hearts.

[Konda]

People that would willingly cause harm to over one thousand wild animals have no hearts.

This is true, but they have a rather nice Fur Coat as a result.

[Purrloin]

People that would willingly cause harm to over one thousand wild animals have no hearts.

Is it still a lack of heart when the goal is OA5 in the primary, OA4 in the secondary, just to see your graphic card melt into a small puddle? Nevermind, I think I answered my own question.

[grevenilvec75]

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4053/hekstaff2.png

This is why the empyrean staff sucks, it delays people from actually getting useful stuff, like Hecate's Earring

[Jimothy]

OA2-4 is a piece of shit along every weapon path, except (arguably) dagger for Dancers. It's a pretty sure mark of someone who tries hard and doesn't understand game mechanics, but it's heartbreaking to explain to them exactly why the D34, 312 delay axe that they made over the last 3 months is such a piece of shit for their Warrior.

One weapon I had wondered about was OAT2-4 gun (if it even comes with 4 augment, haven't checked since the 2-3 update). It seems like it would be good since much of guns damage comes from bullets, but I got tired of trials so never got to a point where I needed to make a decision.

[Andradi]

Ok, so along the discussion of '2-4s are trash', which offhand should I be using/working towards on RDM? (Main-handing Badelaire +2) Currently using Joytoy still (Justice for SE apollyon sometimes), I recall Raen mentioned Twilight Dagger as an offhand for NIN of all things, would it also apply to RDM? Or would a DA/OA2 sword be a better bet?

[Raen Ryong]

I recall Raen mentioned Twilight Dagger as an offhand for NIN of all things

Just as an aside, I've since toned down my views on this since repeating the math and discovering that I made an error in the calculations which made the increase in hits/round appear more significant than they were, so I've abandoned the premise of it being the best NIN offhand or that (though it would certainly beat weaker Katanas)!

[Atomic Skull]

Ok then what about Twastar/Mandau? It occurs to me that regardless of which ends up being better at lvl 99 it's counterpart would still be the best offhand dagger thanks to low delay/high DMG. Or am I missing something?

EDIT: Actually, if you were using Evisceration than Mandau/Twastar would be the best option. Speaking of which has anyone checked to see if Empyreans have their stat adds disabled when equipped offhand like relics/mythics?

[Yugl]

Triplus.

[Scrooge]

Speaking of which has anyone checked to see if Empyreans have their stat adds disabled when equipped offhand like relics/mythics?

Stats on Empyreans are active offhand. Was reported long time ago.

[Alkimi]

Stats are active, but the weapon skills are only available on main hand.

[Skylark]

The system of what stats are active main hand and offhand are kind of broken and should probably be fixed. From talking to Kei(tyan/chan) today he was describing to me that the relics don't get the stat boost offhand while the empyreans do. As of right now I see Kannagi being main handed simply for the weaponskill, while Kikoku could be offhanded. However the +30 attack doesn't take effect and neither does the lolparalyze procs from the Kikoku, so the system is kind of broken in that regard.

[Yugl]

The system of what stats are active main hand and offhand are kind of broken and should probably be fixed. From talking to Kei(tyan/chan) today he was describing to me that the relics don't get the stat boost offhand while the empyreans do. As of right now I see Kannagi being main handed simply for the weaponskill, while Kikoku could be offhanded. However the +30 attack doesn't take effect and neither does the lolparalyze procs from the Kikoku, so the system is kind of broken in that regard.

That's how they (Old Dev at least) wanted it to be. Remember that these changes came with the introduction (Or close to the introduction) of Mythic weapons. Preventing the WS means you don't get the ODD effect.

[Arthars]

kikoku para effect is not "lol"

it is potent and good for low manning

being said i would gladly offhand kikoku if the para works on offhand

they did this so dual wield dont become the next bandwagon

Wouldn't Kikoku still be the best offhand katana even without ATT+35 thanks to it's DMG/delay?

im offhanding sekki+2 on bosses and when i do crazy train pulls

9 agi helps on hi and 20 evasion perfect to evade trains so i dont KO suddenly and good for NMs

surely its better than kikoku sadly ;(

[Zag]

kikoku para effect is not "lol"

it is potent and good for low manning

being said i would gladly offhand kikoku if the para works on offhand

they did this so dual wield dont become the next bandwagon



im offhanding sekki+2 on bosses and when i do crazy train pulls

9 agi helps on hi and 20 evasion perfect to evade trains so i dont KO suddenly and good for NMs

surely its better than kikoku sadly ;(

Yea cause everyone is running around is 2 relics dual wielding all over the place. You worked so hard on 1 weapon that became obsolete as soon as you finally finished it, just to get it nerfed on the off-hand too. Katana and daggers are dual-wielded weapons and should have off-hand stats on them. NIN had native dual wield before relics even came out and should have been allowed to offhand a weapon. I can understand not using a weaponskill on off-hand but losing add effect and attack+30, I don't get it.

With that being said... this game isn't always about offense anyways. You need a perfect balance of defense and offense and those AGI/evasion katanas can make a good off-hand too.

WAR is stronger then MNK but it lacks defensive properties like A+ counter A- evasion and 800 HP chakra with regen 2 effect. People chose MNK cause of their defensive and offensive properties. Back to the point, AGI/evasion katana works very well for NIN.

[Skylark]

Being the fact that Kikoku para may not be lol, I'd hope that in a low man group you have a RDM/WHM with a competent Paralyze MND build that should be out proccing the katanas effect. Now I'm not saying that it's not useful I'm just saying other paralyzes are going to end up being more prominent. But I can certainly see it's merit for NIN soloing/extreme low man.

edit: Now how does Kamome rate in the arena for off handing? Surely it would outparse Sekka on the damage end but Sekka would obviously help keep you alive providing you have the AGI build. (Because we all know there's that one ninja that did the Int path)

[Shouta]

WAR is stronger then MNK but it lacks defensive properties like A+ counter A- evasion and 800 HP chakra with regen 2 effect. People chose MNK cause of their defensive and offensive properties. Back to the point, AGI/evasion katana works very well for NIN.

Monk has a B+ in evasion, not A-, no?

[Fievel]

Monk has a B+ in evasion, not A-, no?

Correct!