Final Form Magian Weapons

[Kidnoftle]

TH11 yields 2 buds 100% from what we discovered.

was right about where I stopped

[Thorny]

The estimates on timed pops are misleading because you can do other things while waiting on repops. Other than that, KIs only come when you don't want them. Otherwise, it's going to be a box of temporary Stalwart Gambir.

At least on leviathan, there're usually multiple people camping them meaning even if its easy to get ag ood claim rate, you need to be there at pop to get the monster. 12 min repop, 2 min kill, was using 7 min as an average wait time + the time required to kill it. It's misleading to think you can leave them standing and get claim every 12min+ if you wander over there.

[Yugl]

During JP hour perhaps, but NA hour on Diabolos is dead.

[Arthars]

cleaving is luck

it depends on what KI u get, and if they are different each time to make a set, and if theres multiple people cleaving which can result in 0 boxes

More people = better for cleave for popsets overtime but if your lacking that 1 or 2 NMs, just do the NMs is better than cleave and hope its the 1-2 KI u need and not some wasted KI that everyone have

combine them = win

[Vincento]

During JP hour perhaps, but NA hour on Diabolos is dead.

JP hours eh.. those still exist? Levi has large amounts of JP's camping everything at all points of the day.

[NynJa]

Couerls were the best for me. Camp is open and they link easily and are conned easy prey with bad accuracy as well.

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT


Dont get me wrong, I use coeurls too, but they dont link.

I dont like Pachy's because they dont link, and you have to physically attack every one, so by the time I pull a bunch in, my whm cures me and she dies. Bats I've tried, but theyre really hit or miss, and even with the epic thf evasion, when they put def down, they can drop me to red very quickly. Gnat's were pretty decent for Aeoliancleaving, but the TP reset / epic slow make them nuissansome. I've tried sandworms too, but they suck....really bad. I havent tried aeoliancleaving scorps, most I did was a pull of 5 or 6 cuz I needed venom stinger. Its kinda intimidating since Death Scissors might end the cleave quickly.

[Iceblazek]

After finishing and playing around with Twashtar/Rudra's storm I want to respond to a lot of the negative posts ive been reading in this thread. Many people are saying that it doesn't compare to Evisceration and that it is a bad weapon skill but this is not true. In fact it is far superior to Evisceration! The problem with Rudra's is that it must be used with either sneak attack or trick attack. So if you aren't a thf i can understand you being disappointed with your 1500 dmg rudra's, but if you are a thief and you stack sa or ta you will average 4500 dmg weaponskills on NMs, they can even go as high as 6000 on the weaker nms. I rarely see a rudra's under 4k but even then it is more consistent and probably higher then any evisceration damage you will do. With all this in mind I do have pretty much the best gear/atma available, but I would find it hard to believe that the average thf would want to use evisceration over rudra's if they have sneak attack or trick attack available to them. Please stop saying Twashtar isnt on the same level as other emp weapons.. it is just as powerful (in some cases more so) then many of the other emp weapons.

[The Blackrose]

cleaving is luck

Bingo.

When going through my Chloris set, we got RNGed to shit with respect to Chloris KIs. Luckily, the few times Chloris KIs appeared, they pulled through with something we actually needed (Mossy Adamantoise was a big one, since others were all over Tahrongi that night. Chukwa is definitely the bottleneck). A solid majority of the popsets were farmed, usually in groups of 2-3 per NM/mob type (we field about 8 people average, those 8 converging for the major KIs).

Sure got a lot of Glavoid sets though.

[NynJa]

You must get TP realllllllllly slow then >.>
I'm not saying its impossible to keep ODD up, since you can do a SA/TA Rudra every 25-30 sec (presuming merits, and you arent tanking)...but to say all you'll be doing is SA/TA Rudra and wont do any Evis is laughable at best.

[Yugl]

What the fuck man? You just echoed what the community said without the "It's not on par with other Empyrean weapon skills." It's precisely because it demands SA to be effective is the reason it's not on par.

[Iceblazek]

You must get TP realllllllllly slow then >.>
I'm not saying its impossible to keep ODD up, since you can do a SA/TA Rudra every 25-30 sec (presuming merits, and you arent tanking)...but to say all you'll be doing is SA/TA Rudra and wont do any Evis is laughable at best.

I didnt say you would never use evisceration, i said if sa or ta is availiable then rudra's is to be used over evisceration.

[Iceblazek]

What the fuck man? You just echoed what the community said without the "It's not on par with other Empyrean weapon skills." It's precisely because it demands SA to be effective is the reason it's not on par.

i dont see what is wrong with using sa or ta to do massive damage weaponskills.. as i said its still much much more damage then evisceration and its higher and more consistent then other emp ws.

[Yugl]

I hope we both understand the difference between "needing SA or TA to do massive damage" and "using SA or TA to do massive damage." If you don't see why the former situation is bad, then your standards for "relatively good" is less than the people who say the WS is crap.

[Afrohatch]

Add the damage from Evis w/o SA or TA, and add the damage from SA and/or TA, and it will probably equal the damage from a SA'd Storm, and still increase TH? At least that's kind of what I'm gathering from the daggerhaters lol

[zard1977]

After finishing and playing around with Twashtar/Rudra's storm I want to respond to a lot of the negative posts ive been reading in this thread. Many people are saying that it doesn't compare to Evisceration and that it is a bad weapon skill but this is not true. In fact it is far superior to Evisceration! The problem with Rudra's is that it must be used with either sneak attack or trick attack. So if you aren't a thf i can understand you being disappointed with your 1500 dmg rudra's, but if you are a thief and you stack sa or ta you will average 4500 dmg weaponskills on NMs, they can even go as high as 6000 on the weaker nms. I rarely see a rudra's under 4k but even then it is more consistent and probably higher then any evisceration damage you will do. With all this in mind I do have pretty much the best gear/atma available, but I would find it hard to believe that the average thf would want to use evisceration over rudra's if they have sneak attack or trick attack available to them. Please stop saying Twashtar isnt on the same level as other emp weapons.. it is just as powerful (in some cases more so) then many of the other emp weapons.

The fact that you cannot use Rudra's storm effectively (must wait for SA or TA to be up) and have to make do with eviseration occasionally (meaning no ODD), implies that Twashtar isn't on the same level as other emp weapons.

[Arthars]

anyone notice twash rhymes with trash?

just sayin XD

anyway im sure no one said rudras suck
we know its super with SA TA but u wont be using it when SA or TA is down, or when you are soloing, so u find urself using evis most of the time which in turns, like kyraa said, makes the twash not comparable to the high end ones like katana h2h and great axe, where you will definately be using the weapon's WS and hence gain full benefits

[Anso]

anyone notice twash rhymes with trash?

just sayin XD

anyway im sure no one said rudras suck
we know its super with SA TA but u wont be using it when SA or TA is down, or when you are soloing, so u find urself using evis most of the time which in turns, like kyraa said, makes the twash not comparable to the high end ones like katana h2h and great axe, where you will definately be using the weapon's WS and hence gain full benefits

Did my first Blade: Hi and haven't Blade: Jin'd since, Twash kinda sucks. Don't get me wrong, SATA Rudra's is a nice chunk of damage and everything, but shit's very situational. HEY I think I just thought of a way PLD can hold hate again!

[Malacite]

Besides the obvious need for SA & TA to even make it worth using, how does Twashtar stack up vs a 90 Mandau especially given the recent power boost to 90 relics' WS?

Shouldn't Mercy Stroke, even without crit, still do a crap tonne (and thus all the more so with SA/TA?) Just seems to me like if you've got the resources a Mandau will serve a THF better while DNC & BRD are both better off with their Mythics. DNC's kinda murky though I'll admit because TP gain is so stupidly easy in Abyssea not sure the extra steps outweigh Rudra's Storm (will Building Flourish make it crit btw? Or does that only apply to WS that can already crit? Wiki doesn't say one way or the other.)

[Greatguardian]

i dont see what is wrong with using sa or ta to do massive damage weaponskills.. as i said its still much much more damage then evisceration and its higher and more consistent then other emp ws.

Have you really never seen a good Verethragna MNK before? My highest non-brew Smite on Blunt-Neutral/No-Extra-Damage-Taken NMs is 8.7k, and I average around 5,500 - 6,000 depending on what food I'm eating and what mobs I'm fighting (5500 for Bison Steak, around 6k with RCB). The only thing that occasionally brings down the average is fighting trash mobs that allow only 2 or 3 of the WS hits to go off before they die. And the best part is my MNK can hit all of these numbers *whether it has hate or not*. You can't SA a WS if you have hate, and if you're using an Empyrean Weapon and honestly don't have hate then something else is wrong entirely.

[Arthars]

i think all he mean is when SA or TA is present with rudras, it is higher damage than other emp WS and more consistent numbers(because SA TA cant miss)

he dont mean rudras >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all

being said, when SA or TA is down, evis >>>>> rudras which in turns in general makes twash slightly <<< than most good emps

theres no argument to this really, unless for some reason your normal non SA/TA rudras deal consistently more damage than evis with the usual atmas which is never going to happen in this cruel world call abyssea where all your non crit WS are crap