Final Form Magian Weapons

[Aurara]

if you're using an Empyrean Weapon and honestly don't have hate then something else is wrong entirely.

Wildfire would like to have a word with you!

[Greatguardian]

Oh I know, he was just saying that a SA Rudra's hit around 6k earlier when I'm saying that's hardly out-damaging a Vereth, lol. I've yet to see a Ukon in action but I'm sure their numbers shouldn't be too far off either.

Edit: Touche! Walked right into that one.

[Aurara]

i never have hate with my ukon war, im always dead. also,
http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...6a18004329.jpg since you said you havent seen ukon in action(this was before those assholes lies to me then kicked me)

[Arthars]

100% crit on rudras is definately more consistent than other crit WS tho, twash is not evry good but cant deny the "consistent" fact either

only talking about SA/TA WS. not saying twash is anywhere as near broken emps like h2h and gaxe lol

[Greatguardian]

@Arthars: Ah yeah, this is true. Can't really beat 100% crit rate for consistency, lol.

@Aurara: That's some sexy Ukko's damage! Ukon's such a great weapon, but to be honest I'm glad no one in my SP has WAR because I never want to go back to Tahrongi. All of the rest of our weapons are La Theine-based, aside from Ochain, so it's pretty much easy mode.

Obligatory Minax damage shot (Apoc/RR/VV, Boost/Impetus/Zerk):

[Arthars]

You'll only see ukon in action when u have the party has more than 3 people lol

you will never see an ukon fight low man in something worthwhile like high tier NMs.

Too much TP fed, too much to cure to tank, high rate of death etc

best for cleaving for farming since if you play war, you prolly need to farm more with that much member in ur group haha

sorry im just very biased against war and mnks lol

actually i like mnk a lil better because they proc blue for phat loots XD

[Mojo]

Hmm, I've tanked plenty of things with WAR/MNK and it's not that bad on healing, it's just not almost hands off like ninja can be sometimes. A good WHM can handle it fine. I don't have Ukons yet either.

[Humblejoe]

So you're gimping your damage even more by waiting on SA/TA timers? My THF is not gimped, but not amazing by any means and my SA or TA Evis's do 3k-6k on NMs. If you're just WS'ing on timers you're really gimping your overall damage.

[EjinCaitsith]

You'll only see ukon in action when u have the party has more than 3 people lol

you will never see an ukon fight low man in something worthwhile like high tier NMs.

Too much TP fed, too much to cure to tank, high rate of death etc

best for cleaving for farming since if you play war, you prolly need to farm more with that much member in ur group haha

sorry im just very biased against war and mnks lol

actually i like mnk a lil better because they proc blue for phat loots XD

I would rank you as one of the top trolls on BG, because some people probably take the nonsense you say seriously.

[chichicha]

My THF is not gimped, but not amazing by any means and my SA or TA Evis's do 3k-6k on NMs. If you're just WS'ing on timers you're really gimping your overall damage.

I'm intersted to know what's your gears setup for
TA Evis
SA Evis
And which atmas on which mob?
For the result of 3k to 6k damage.

[konoko]

Birds is my only guess, my thief is far from gimp and on anything but birds i see 3.7k evis on top end dmg (this is with twashtar).
Rudra's might not be the end all dmg of ws's, but thiefs DoT skyrockets with Apoc/GH/RR and Aftermath, against piercing weak mobs your doing at least 400 dmg on every crit, and attacking insanely fast, twash, is not trash. its better than anything else thief gets currently, and TH8+ rocks in abyssea even when getting yellow/blue procs

[Darkmagi]

Isn't mandau better in abyssea generally? You pretty much always benefit from that atk and you shouldn't be using rudra's in abyssea normally.

[konoko]

thief benefits greatly from the aftermath, i don't think any mandau thief could hold a candle to a thief with rudra's aftermath going in abyssea

[fredjanx]

I would rank you as one of the top trolls on BG, because some people probably take the nonsense you say seriously.

lolwut, MNK and NIN require less support than any WAR.

[Darkmagi]

I'm pretty sure you should never be using rudra's at 100 tp, so you would only really benefit if you somehow had excess tp and your SA/TA timer was up. Not to mention that you really should just be solo SA/TAing for TH upgrades. THFs main purpose is drops after all and not slightly increasing your damage.

[konoko]

dark, thats just insulting, also you are "pretty sure". that doesn't really give you the credibility to one way or another what is better.

[Darkmagi]

Brythnoth posted math on it here and I don't remember the specifics other than Evisceration generally outperforming Rudra's with proper atmas. If you don't afk while meleeing I don't see how you can have timers line up for SA/TA WS often anyways.

[konoko]

yes evis outpowers rudra's, we all know that. Weather or not a thief using twash and evis will outdmg over time a thief using rudra's is a whole nother story

[Greatguardian]

Fulltiming Aftermath requires actually using Rudra's fairly often. I'm not a mathologist so I won't attempt to determine the exact damage difference between spamming Evis and unstacked SA and TA versus SA'ing Rudra's stacked and getting your aftermath, but the fact that Twashtar forces THF to choose between their strongest weaponskill and their Aftermath immediately puts it in the same boat as the Empyrean Polearm. Strong weapon? Sure. Trying to defend its viability among Verethragna and Ukonvasara? Good luck.

[Darkmagi]

I'll stop arguing about it due to lack of math, but I don't see aftermath making up for either holding tp or using a bad WS. Sure it will have occasional use, I just don't see it as something you will regularly use at a loss of much WS dmg.