Final Form Magian Weapons

[Neosutra]

40% proc looks meh for MNK and SAM. it wont beat hagun with this rate, and won't beat destroyers if it applies only on the first fist. If it procs on both fists it will destroy relics so I doubt it will either.

How would the Gktna NOT beat Hagun???

And I'm almost positive the OAT will apply to both hits. And like said above, SE just doesnt understand how powerful OAT weapons are, pretty much every OAT weapon here will beat the current relic (even with base damage+).

[Shadida]

Just crunched some numbers for curious SAMs like me for the OAT GKT with Delay 464. This all assumes you have 5/5 Store TP merits.

To get a 5-hit build, you would need +29 Store TP from gear. This can be accomplished with Usukane body/feet, Rajas Ring, Brutal Earring, Hachiman Kote, and either Rose Strap or White Tathlum. Even if you used all that gear with both the Strap and the Tathlum, you would need to weapon skill with at least 16 Store TP.

To get a 6-hit build, you would only need 2 Store TP from gear. So, this could free up a lot of gear options.

With a Sword Strap, you would need 11 Store TP from gear in order to keep the 6-hit.

[Nightfyre]

Assuming that all are 40% and joyeuse is 45% (i havent seen parse but seems to be accepted that it is) Joyeuse will win out over the Magian da sword for atonement spam yeah?

It loses even if it matches Joyeuse's proc rate if you're using Rajas, which you should be.

How would the Gktna NOT beat Hagun???

And I'm almost positive the OAT will apply to both hits. And like said above, SE just doesnt understand how powerful OAT weapons are, pretty much every OAT weapon here will beat the current relic (even with base damage+).

My fairly rough math had Hagun and Kurodachi parsing evenly at about a 42% proc rate with a 6-hit. Going from that math, it loses at 40%. Sword Strap would close the gap if you're able to employ it without losing haste (Usu body but then you could just 5-hit), but Kurodachi isn't going to destroy Hagun like we initially suspected if it's only a 40% proc rate.

EDIT: 5-hit's a different story but the advantage isn't as big as you'd think since you have to sacrifice Haste and there's a significant overflow rate.

[Demosthenes11]

40% proc looks meh for MNK and SAM. it wont beat hagun with this rate, and won't beat destroyers if it applies only on the first fist. If it procs on both fists it will destroy relics so I doubt it will either.

how does that not beat hagun?
if you 5 hit this weapon, you are looking at half your ws being after 2 attack rounds.

[NynJa]

What are the GKT tiers...in order of general practical use: sobo, amano, mythic, pachi, hagun....whatever else I missed.

Before everyone jumps on the stupid question, the only time my sam gets used is to spam Namas. I dont own a Hagun

[Neosutra]

My latency sux here Nightfyre, where is this math showing that 40% fails to Hagun? I just cant see such a GIANT boost in TP rate being outweighed by hagun.

[Nightfyre]

My latency sux here Nightfyre, where is this math showing that 40% fails to Hagun? I just cant see such a GIANT boost in TP rate being outweighed by hagun.

Wasn't done here (didn't actually post the break-even math anywhere tbh) and I might have been high at the time because looking back at it you're only losing 7% of your DPS with that change... break-even point is more like 25%. Should still win over Hagun by about 12% unless I'm missing something then.

[Castellano]

we still dunno if it procs on ws either right?

[Neosutra]

It doesnt.

[Motenten]

It's the same as Joyeuse, jesus christ people...

EDIT: if you want further proof, he's doing it to mobs that die. DA can't proc on the last hit if it kills something. you need either fortifications or pen and paper to do it right.

The parser (KParser) already accounts for that. Note the column for "Kills w/Min Attacks".

Rounds: 1073
DAs: 432
Kills w/Min Attacks: 9

432/1073 = 40.26%

9 rounds were kills; remove those from the number of rounds in the calculation.

432/1064 = 40.60%

[seiji]

any test done to know if weapon rank is based on total damage or just base damage for OAT weapons?

[Tsuko_Asura]

So Hagun is still better, and feeds half as much TP. Gotcha.

[Nishida]

So, I'm slightly confused. In order to beat Hagun what are the circumstances for Kurodachi, if any? Sorry maybe it's just because it's late. @_@

[Neosutra]

No, Hagun is not better, he came back and corrected himself.

Kurodachi > all, except maybe amano.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Everyone seems to be disagreeing with you, using actual numbers. I'm not sure who you're talking about.

[Mazmaz]

The Taliban told him it was better than Hagun.

[Neosutra]

Wasn't done here (didn't actually post the break-even math anywhere tbh) and I might have been high at the time because looking back at it you're only losing 7% of your DPS with that change... break-even point is more like 25%. Should still win over Hagun by about 12% unless I'm missing something then.

Was refering to this. Nightfyre was the only person I saw to say Hagun would win, then took it back in this post.

Who is the "everyone" that is disagreeing? Besides you?

And the Taliban dont do VNMs.

[mdkuser]

My bad I spoke too fast, magian is better than hagun even with 40% proc.

I used my own gear, so the difference is smaller with lower haste.

Magian 6 hit is ~7.5% better than hagun.
Magian 5 hit is ~3% better than hagun. ( normally 5 hits are better but here you lose 5% haste and you have so much TP overflow that droping one hit doesn't help)
Rindomaru 5 hit ( mine with store tp 15 ws+2%) is ~3% better.


FOr a NQ SAM ( no usukane no HQ haste gear): cannot 5 hit rindo nor magian and magian 6 hit is still ~7% better than hagun.

[Nishida]

FOr a NQ SAM ( no usukane no HQ haste gear): cannot 5 hit rindo nor magian and magian 6 hit is still ~7% better than hagun.

Please tell me others agree with this. Need to know if I should sell Hagun =P

[Khajit]

How much does the 40% DA rate affect thf since DA overwrites triple attack?