Final Form Magian Weapons

[Khelek]

The parser (KParser) already accounts for that. Note the column for "Kills w/Min Attacks".

Rounds: 1073
DAs: 432
Kills w/Min Attacks: 9

432/1073 = 40.26%

9 rounds were kills; remove those from the number of rounds in the calculation.

432/1064 = 40.60%

It's still the same procrate as joyeuse. It's the same effect. You don't REALLY think SE would go out of their way to create a new version of OAT just to lower it 5% do you? It's either just because of the low sample, or the previous idea that joyeuse was 45% was.

[Darkyrm]

It's still the same procrate as joyeuse. It's the same effect. You don't REALLY think SE would go out of their way to create a new version of OAT just to lower it 5% do you? It's either just because of the low sample, or the previous idea that joyeuse was 45% was.

Since you dont offer any proof you saying its the same as Joyeuse has the same value as other saying its 5% lower, so you cant say for sure "It's still the same procrate as joyeuse".

Cant be too difficoult to get some Joy testing but the point its that saying something just because "It has to be the same" doesnt have too much value.

[Morpheu]

May I ask something?

What OAT means?

The thing is called Trial of Magicans (ToM).

Wondering what OAT stand for.

[Dooom]

Occasionally Attacks Twice.

[Morpheu]

Thanks

[Morpheu]

I may be poking a bee hive here. If anyone feel offended is not my intention.

About the OAT weapons, I noticed (for what i could see on wiki) that all the weapons that have OAT and are "easy" to get, have low dmg compared to other 75 weapons.

When you all say: "this is better then that" you mean those weapons or the ones you need VNM drops?

I noticed "easy" GK have the same dmg as soboro. So I'm assuming you guys talking about the "hard" OAT ones.

[Shamaya]

1k hits isn't enough but he said he was going to 10k. I remember when doing the crit testing that I'd see huge differences between a 1k parse and several k. I could full well see it being 45%, though to say 50% is possible would be a bit of a stretch.

For those that want to know about the thief dagger,

For the comparison between Sirocco vs Athame, I include factors like delay, StoreTP(rajas, brutal, skadi), dual wield (trait, ACP, & an offhand w/ 178 delay), multi-attacks (triple trait/merits, brutal), and assumed Athame O.A.T. was non-jailer style and at 50%. I didn't know until after I posted that that people feel that Joytoy is only 45%.

This came out to Athame only having 3% higher TP-gain from Sirocco, and about 10% more DPS. I'm pretty sure 40% D.A. would mean that ti was slower than Sirocco, and DPS-wise, that'd put it at ~13.6. Factors being BD, delay, triple trait/merits, brutal, 40% non-jailer OAT. 13.6 DPS isn't too impressive .

If Athame is 50% non-jailer OAT, it's basically a Sirocco+1 and it's hard to say how much use it'll have. I want it to be a better Mandau offhand, but it doesn't look like it usually would be. Hard to say how it would compare to PerfectFane/Blau without going into some longer math. X's is a whole nother ball game. But MandauX's/Fane aside, it's a pretty good offhand. That's assuming 50% though. If it's 40%/45% non-jailer OAT, can't see it really being that great . Maybe possibly marginally useful for /drk zerging and skillchaining, or trying to feed something TP.

If it's jailer-style OAT, then I would be thoroughly impressed.

[Aurara]

so X's/Blau/sirocco or ridill(salvage people!) would still be better?

[Khelek]

Since you dont offer any proof you saying its the same as Joyeuse has the same value as other saying its 5% lower, so you cant say for sure "It's still the same procrate as joyeuse".

Cant be too difficoult to get some Joy testing but the point its that saying something just because "It has to be the same" doesnt have too much value.

The procrate shown in his sample is close enough. You would know this if you have done this stuff before. if the rate he got was like 10% I would say something was off, but he's within 4~% of the previously assumed procrate with a rather low amount of hits. It's the same.

[Thorny]

base dmg is high enough to make single wield viable if you have no mandau/x's, just something to consider

[pchan]

so 40.26% +/- 2.9% error due to the 1k ish sample size, still enough to make the H2H weapons gimp unless they proc on both fists. And thanks for testing Radec.

[Neosutra]

Let's make a bet Pchan. If they proc on both fists you cant TP in strength rings anymore, if they dont, Ill stop debating religion on BG.

[Ophannus]

Look who really cares about GK? Nobody, that's who. Now let's see some data involving the 1h swords.

[Nameless]

No, Hagun is not better, he came back and corrected himself.

Kurodachi > all, except maybe amano.

I don't even think Amano beats it honestly...

[pchan]

40% OAT on both fists makes them = augmented spharai, so .. no.

[Neosutra]

They would only equal augment spharai for now, spharai still has a few more upgrades to go. And the other OAT weapons beat out their relic counterparts currently, so your argument is loose.

[pchan]

You are taking your desires for reality. Beating hagun is one thing - plenty of weapon already do that. Beating a relic is another thing, which unlike what you claim, is not proven, as, so far, only the dagger has been observed.

[Shamaya]

base dmg is high enough to make single wield viable if you have no mandau/x's, just something to consider

Except it's not that good. And Mandau/X's isn't even king-crud either (evenish with blau at best). 31/211*60*1.624 = ~14.3 DPS, and that's assuming 50% non-jailer OAT. That's barely more than several alternatives and doesn't even go into att/str/acc/etc. If you do the tp-gain math, it's barely faster than Sirocco for this. Plus single-wielding for DMG on mobs merit level and below, even with Mandau, is fail for DPS. So I wouldn't single-wield this .

Ridill is great for thief (probably more useful than with any other job). It doesn't cease to surprise me how often I'm fighting something EM/DC or below. Even in merits with current gear (cuchulain's, anwig) it's very close to x's/blau for mandau offhand, tho I don't use it.

So no I can't see it having very much use . Just hoping it's jailer-style OAT but I doubt that will be the case.

[Neosutra]

So we should get tests on whether it is jailer style OAT like.. asap?

[drewbixcube]

I may be poking a bee hive here. If anyone feel offended is not my intention.

About the OAT weapons, I noticed (for what i could see on wiki) that all the weapons that have OAT and are "easy" to get, have low dmg compared to other 75 weapons.

When you all say: "this is better then that" you mean those weapons or the ones you need VNM drops?

I noticed "easy" GK have the same dmg as soboro. So I'm assuming you guys talking about the "hard" OAT ones.

The "easy" OAT weapons are fairly annoying to upgrade in their own right. I don't even want to imagine doing the 1500 mobs for dagger(400 peistes fuck that, I had a bad enough time killing hippogryphs with a PL until a bunch of jps showed up).
5 T3 pops, assuming you're not unbelievably unlucky with abyssite upgrades off T2's (I personally went ~1/15 with a friend rdm duoing capricornicus or w/e) and that you have friends/a linkshell that will assist you it's probably easier just to wait it out for the drops rather than more mindless grinding.

I'd rather have fun lowmanning VNM's than sitting around killing maybe 100 of a mob type (with a RDM PL to make it insanely easy) before wanting to gouge my eyes out, and get a better dagger out of it anyway.