Final Form Magian Weapons

[Onorgul]

This thread is amusing. People assume the new weapons are grossly overpowered, then someone suggests they're not as good, and everyone runs back to the old standards that've only been around for a couple of years. To think we all imagined a change out of SE.

[Villian]

I'm still working toward bow/gun just to see how DA works on them, + they're easy to get 5 hits set up as /sam.

[pchan]

Hades sainti
Hades sainti+1
waghs
oberon's sainti with max stats of 4 dmg, 10 H2H skill, and something else
wargfangs without damage
wargfangs with 17 damage
shenlongs
mantis with the 21 base damage
kenkonken with magian augments

I see a lot of whats best for mnk but they got different amounts of martial arts traits and stuff, plus they have faith and destroyers as options. :s

Will depend on if you need acc or not (or can trade this acc for haste/attack etc). But following the math I did for MNK, you can expect :

If acc is capped

The number between ( and ) is the dps computed as follows : [ (average melee hit)*(avergae # rounds needed for 100tp)+(average ws damage) ]/(delai/60 * (average # round per 100 tp))

kenkonken augmented (38.13)
shenlong (36.76)
mantis(35.94)
oberon(35.82)
HS+1(35.49)
wagh(34.11)
warfang(33.0, with 40% proc on 1st hand)

all is done /nin full usu

if acc is not cap
essentially the same except mantis sucks now. It should be

kenk>shen>oberon>HS+1>mantis>wagh>warfang.

Nothing happened.

[Psion]

Anyone whos NOT Pchan? Because I don't trust Pchan's math in anything.

[Yugl]

Anyone whos NOT Pchan? Because I don't trust Pchan's math in anything.

Why don't you do it yourself?

[Psion]

Because my result would probably be as inaccurate as Pchans. Only difference is, I know better than to spread false math.

[JigglyJam]

I trust that's correct. I'm building up a mantis based the info that warg can't proc on both fists. My own math led it to be Warg(can double) > Mantis > Wargh (limited to one). Mantis has higher base DMG then the best oberon's and kenkonken and shenlong's are kind of no brainers.

[Kametame]

bro in my social finished pup oat weapon, does not proc in second punch as we all assumed QQ (credit to Eiwi of Lakshmi, posted on alla he says as well)

The only hope, albeit slim is that the DMG+17 wargs and the DMG+0 wargs have different OAT types. Though this is probably just futile optimism, but I'll wait until i see someone with the DMG+17 version, otherwise go go mantis.

[Oulanbator]

So, conclusions are:

- 2Handers will not see a serious boost with these OAT weapons, at best a slight boost on merit-like mobs. This sounds good because they didn't needed any boost in the first place.

- Mnks won't get double attack on every fist. It sounds good as well, because it was one of the rare one-handers that could keep up regularly with 2Handers, so if 2Handers aren't buffed, why buff mnk ?

- Dual-wielders will get a boost in WS frequency and WS damage (new High dmg weapon and OAT weapon offhand). It sounds great as these classes were somehow left behind, let's hope they can keep up now.

- 1handers not dual-wielding get an situationally interesting weapon. Doesn't sounds bad.


It seems like SE did a really good job at balancing things here. ^^

[orson]

So, conclusions are:

- 2Handers will not see a serious boost with these OAT weapons, at best a slight boost on merit-like mobs. This sounds good because they didn't needed any boost in the first place.

- Mnks won't get double attack on every fist. It sounds good as well, because it was one of the rare one-handers that could keep up regularly with 2Handers, so if 2Handers aren't buffed, why buff mnk ?

- Dual-wielders will get a boost in WS frequency and WS damage (new High dmg weapon and OAT weapon offhand). It sounds great as these classes were somehow left behind, let's hope they can keep up now.

- 1handers not dual-wielding get an situationally interesting weapon. Doesn't sounds bad.


It seems like SE did a really good job at balancing things here. ^^

What? There's been no conclusion at all on almost any of what you've mentioned. There's far too many factors to make say that any of the stuff you generalized about are conclusions. That or else you don't really understand the difference between untested theory and conclusive research.

[Shamaya]

I wish, Oulanbator. But after finding out the OAT dagger is pretty crummy, and that /nin won't be getting Yonin/Innin (from Vanafest translated vid), I'm Q,Q'in.

[Oulanbator]

What? There's been no conclusion at all on almost any of what you've mentioned. There's far too many factors to make say that any of the stuff you generalized about are conclusions. That or else you don't really understand the difference between untested theory and conclusive research.

Fine, call these the more plausible hypothesis, because that's the results you're likely to get for at least 80% of the weapons.
Now, it's time to get on your maths to find the couple exceptions that sneaked in.

[mdkuser]

Not much of a math person, simple answer for 5Hit OAT GK vs 6Hit OAT GK without dusk gloves +1? Assuming 5hit wins always if acc isn't an issue and you can eat carbonara also?

well as Ironpandemoniom said you can go with full haste, and use carbonara. but keep in mind the moment carbonara is viable, Hagun itself is 5-hit-able and blows everything ( usu body feet hachi gloved rose strap and probably white thaltum and other various stp stuff in neck/back/ear should do it easilly.. just need 16 more stp than usual).

[mdkuser]

Did math on RC vs. Luchtaine in full haste (80% for RC, 76.7%ish for Luchtaine assumed dusk+1 feet, no speed belt or dusk gloves +1). RC wins by 10%ish.

how does it compare to fortitude?

[orson]

how does it compare to fortitude?

I'm not doing math really but it's probably very close to the same if you're losing about 40% of your DAs to the OAT triggering. For the sake of convenience and coupled with retaliation + /Dnc for solo situations it'll be superior I'd say. Mostly it seems that the GAX will be situational until the next set of upgrades come rolling out. Then we can all cry when we see the max damage one gets +10 acc/att and TP bonus added to it.

[Shinryuu]

Luchtaine should always beat Fort comfortably.

[pchan]

I checked the other day and it seemed to beat perdu, without the 5 acc because it's irrelevant.

[Nameless]

Maybe for War and Sam that these are slight upgrade, but for Drk and Drg these are significant boosts. DAing on Jump 40% of the time while getting TP is just borderline broken. While if using it wisely, this plus souleater can give you mini zerg every 4:10 providing that you receive some Whm attention. Perhaps this balances the game a bit as Warriors on weak mobs are just out of control.

[Shinryuu]

Yeah DRK and DRG are the clear winners, they don't have as much base DA (which dampens how good OAT is for WAR and SAM). Souleater is 5:00, by the way.

[Stromgarde]

6:00 meritable down to 5:00, yeah.