Final Form Magian Weapons

[Atoreis]

Do you always use Caladbolg over Apocalypse when you are on DRK, or whats the instances in which you would choose one over the other?

I would never use Cala over Apoc tbh. Cala is better on damage only under perfect condition. With marches and Apoc you can pretty much full time pdt if needed when third eye is down and you lose nothing on damage. It is far more versatile and usually this makes it also better on damage too.

[Darriken]

Well i currently have a Kannagi which i basically use for anything inside abyssea, and an Apocalypse which i use on everything outside abyssea, i started building gems/lanterns and hearts, and i'm trying to find out which i want more, GKT, GS, or GUN, i was leaning more towards GKT and GS. I've been doing GS NM trials because i figured I would wind up doing that, but I'm not sure now...

[Atoreis]

It depends if you play ina bigger group when there is a lot of healers and other DDs to share hate then you maybe will have some advantage from Caladbolg outside but it wont be much. If you play in group when you find yourself tanking and swapping sets to pdt, mdt then Apoc will easily win on damage not to mention stuff like drain HP from WS.

[Gun-it]

I would never use Cala over Apoc tbh. Cala is better on damage only under perfect condition. With marches and Apoc you can pretty much full time pdt if needed when third eye is down and you lose nothing on damage. It is far more versatile and usually this makes it also better on damage too.

I am drop my DD gear.

[Atoreis]

I am drop my DD gear.

Ok specially for you. This sentence should go like this ( it was 3 am and I used few mind shortcuts :/ )

"With marches and apoc you can pretty much constantly switch to PDT gear while third eye is down and lose nothing on haste."

Honestly tho there is no such thing like full time something "if needed when third eye is down" and "lose nothing on damage" in sentence with Apoc and marches was obviously about not losing any damage from losing haste.

Next time I will try to be more precise.

[Arthars]

I have been switching between cala and apoc alot when i play DRK.

To be honest 90poc damage is finally sweet, but still not as good as caladbolg. For dynamis parse, i did average 16xx catas damage and 19xx torcleaver damage. I cannot give the melee overtime damage tho...cos i dont full focus 2 hours in dynamis (afk here and there sometimes) but my WS average damage is consistent, as i stop parsing after 80 WS each, usually per 50 mins.

90poc still has its uses tho...outside abyssea. dealing 1600 damage can mean a good 1200ish HP drain and its good as we spam SE and LR now, which takes more damage. Granted WHM can still cure our ass off easily, but outside abyssea its not as convinient to spam V or VIs(not MP efficient at all spaming 6 outside abyssea). Im not saying its omg super, but 90poc drain is instant and sure helps with the WS damage it can deal. As for which weapon is better, i have not go into DOT parse...just too lazy :X

Well i currently have a Kannagi which i basically use for anything inside abyssea, and an Apocalypse which i use on everything outside abyssea, i started building gems/lanterns and hearts, and i'm trying to find out which i want more, GKT, GS, or GUN, i was leaning more towards GKT and GS. I've been doing GS NM trials because i figured I would wind up doing that, but I'm not sure now...

u should consider gun as well. Its easy to lvl cor, and gear it up. its really really good for events where u doing in a pt or more.

NIN tanking outside abyssea thats worthwhile atm (eg. vw) is just crap....

apoc is not far at all from calad like i mentioned above....and playing a drk is almost the same as playing a sam. Your job is the same, melee and spam WS buttons....thats what i feel, just different JA setups. So even if u pick GS over GKT or vice versa, its still the same in the end XD

[Arthars]

edit: wtf double post and BG database error message O_O

[Atoreis]

I have been switching between cala and apoc alot when i play DRK.

To be honest 90poc damage is finally sweet, but still not as good as caladbolg. For dynamis parse, i did average 16xx catas damage and 19xx torcleaver damage. I cannot give the melee overtime damage tho...cos i dont full focus 2 hours in dynamis (afk here and there sometimes) but my WS average damage is consistent, as i stop parsing after 80 WS each, usually per 50 mins.

90poc still has its uses tho...outside abyssea. dealing 1600 damage can mean a good 1200ish HP drain and its good as we spam SE and LR now, which takes more damage. Granted WHM can still cure our ass off easily, but outside abyssea its not as convinient to spam V or VIs(not MP efficient at all spaming 6 outside abyssea). Im not saying its omg super, but 90poc drain is instant and sure helps with the WS damage it can deal. As for which weapon is better, i have not go into DOT parse...just too lazy :X

300 damage difference on WS means Apoc wins overall for sure. First you not always swing in full haste because you switch for MDT,PDT and Apoc lose no haste then. Apoc has slightly higher WS frequency with 6 hit and much higher DA/TA/fstr/acc. Normal haste set for Caladbolg has only about +18 accuracy (counting +dex) If I am not mistaken and that is probably not enough to cap accuracy on anything high. I cant see how Cala wins by having advantage only on WS and only by 15-16%.

[Darriken]

300 damage difference on WS means Apoc wins overall for sure. First you not always swing in full haste because you switch for MDT,PDT and Apoc lose no haste then. Apoc has slightly higher WS frequency with 6 hit and much higher DA/TA/fstr/acc. Normal haste set for Caladbolg has only about +18 accuracy (counting +dex) If I am not mistaken and that is probably not enough to cap accuracy on anything high. I cant see how Cala wins by having advantage only on WS and only by 15-16%.

I would assume it may have something to do with the ODD during the TP phase that would push caladbolg over the top in those situations where you do have the support for curing and BRD songs

[Arthars]

Maybe with am and the slightly faster swing idk i do like apoc on evasive mobs tho

I wont go as far as bringing full mdb n pdt gear as my drk already on 68/80 space with all the tp, ws n dark msgic gear

And i also dont like to do comparison in extreme situation like full delay cap etc

I prefer the norm, just with haste n such. More realistic

Also i use drk for ep dynamis farm n bcnm mainly so i cant say how both weapon fair in a real uptight situation

[Draylo]

Maybe with am and the slightly faster swing idk i do like apoc on evasive mobs tho

I wont go as far as bringing full mdb n pdt gear as my drk already on 68/80 space with all the tp, ws n dark msgic gear

And i also down like to do comparison in extreme situation like full delay cap etc

I prefer the norm, just with haste n such. More realistic

68/80? :/ Wish I could have the much on most of my jobs lol.

[Arthars]

ur a BLU haha BLU need equips for 2 jobs

my NIN is like 72/80...fucking we need 100

[Atoreis]

I prefer the norm, just with haste n such. More realistic

It is far more important with only haste then with double marches. Every change in head/body/hands/legs/feet/belt slots on Cala TP is losing haste when with Apoc you can go down to 15% w/o losing haste.
With marches/LR/haste you only need like 15% in equip to cap haste cap so Cala lose much less in this case but still I cant see a Cala build with enough acc+ for higher evasive mobs w/o hurting it in haste department. Even with marches there is also 28% time w/o LR when above argument from haste only + LR situation is valid again.

[Arthars]

yea calad have acc issues on higher end stuffs thats true

apoc +35 acc and higher weapon ranking (for some unknown jesus reason) is sweeter

[Hitoseijuro]

300 damage difference on WS means Apoc wins overall for sure. First you not always swing in full haste because you switch for MDT,PDT and Apoc lose no haste then. Apoc has slightly higher WS frequency with 6 hit and much higher DA/TA/fstr/acc. Normal haste set for Caladbolg has only about +18 accuracy (counting +dex) If I am not mistaken and that is probably not enough to cap accuracy on anything high. I cant see how Cala wins by having advantage only on WS and only by 15-16%.

Basically what I had already determined to be the outcome for both weapons before the new content even came out. I posted this on ffxiah on dark forums when I noticed a lot of relic users wishing their apoc was still useful. Apoc has a lot of utility to be used for a lot of situations that present itself to be a decent challenge in this game now. I personally feel any full use of the relic's accuracy puts it over caladborg. The only response I got to that was that as new content comes out, we wont be suffering from lv correction like at 75 and mobs wont have exaggerated high stats, so at 99 it would be a moot point.

I can see this happening to a point, which is why I didnt continue the conversation as I could not add anything to counter that without making baseless assumptions or predictions, thankfully with VW it gives us a small look at how SE is still going to try to toss out high eva/high def mobs and if that pattern continues it should prove to benefit Apoc most, not to mention that SE has stated to bring out people's relics true potential in being the best around 99 anyhow. Id personally rather go with Apoc+RCB over Calad+Pizza+1(if it came to that).

Either way Apoc users have the luxury that caladborg is easy to make so they can use that when the situation calls for and swap to Apoc when it becomes more aggressive.

[Michelob]

not to mention that SE has stated to bring out people's relics true potential in being the best around 99 anyhow.

Not to nitpik but I don't believe that the development team has ever explicitly stated this. I know they had said that both relic and mythic weapons would be adjusted but that is not the same thing as what you're claiming. I feel you are likely correct but please, show me evidence behind what you are claiming because I don't think it is a correct statement at this time.

[Byrthnoth]

They said that they were going to appropriately adjust the difficulty of obtaining relics, mythics, and Empyreans so that it would make sense at 99. They never explicitly stated they were putting Relics on top.

The other way to interpret that is, "We're going to make it easier to get relics and mythics," which they have certainly done. As it stands, if Empyreans keep getting "Obtain 100 ______ items" every trial and Relics/Mythics keep getting "Kill 5 ______", they will probably even out by 99.

[Atoreis]

This also makes me rage because I can't decide to make Spharai or Apoc. I don't care about inside abyssea because I have that covered with Kannagi, Veret and outside abyssea Apoc is overall best weapon for DRK and makes it really fun to play and fun to set up equip for aftermath up. Spharai also improve what is best in MNK and I am career MNK. Btw Spharai outside is much less behind Veret then ppl think (beside zerg maybe with blood rage and crit roll).

[Amok]

They did say they were going to balance the difficulty, but they also said they wanted to relics to always be the best weapon (in an interview iirc). Though to me it seems like they're either forgetting about ever having said that, I think Hitoseijuro meant that they'll just gradually boost them as level cap increases. Honestly I don't think they'll do either. Not enough anyway.

[Atoreis]

I think ppl whine a little too much

GS - easy stuff empyrean wins hard stuff relic wins
Scythe - same as above
H2H - Veret wins on damage but lose on survivability and outside advantage of Veret damage is pretty low
Dagger - Mandau is at least equal if not better
GKT - Empyrean wins but if accuracy is starting to be a problem then they starting to be very close
Club - relic wins!
Gaxe - Well yeah... Ukon shits all over Bravura
Shields - Well even that Ochain would be used more it's not like it's better. Tbh it's far easier to replace PLD on tanking something with mainly physical treatment then Aegis PLD on something that spams magic and you cant evasion,counter,blink etc.
Polearm - I have no idea but considering you will spam drakesbane then relic def down looks much more appealing. Both lose to mythic
Bow - Well empyrean will win on damage but only on short fights
Gun - Here it is a little tricky because relic is for RNG when empyrean is more for COR
Katana - Empyrean wins
Sword - Empyrean wins to a point when atonement do more damage then CDC

Summing up most empyrean wins on damage but relics have more unique effects that makes them more versatile. Relics are also not that far on damage like most ppl think. It is abyssea that shits on relics because of buffs inside.