Final Form Magian Weapons

[Shadida]

I haven't really seen anything on gun comparisons yet. Does OAT trump even relic?

Annihilator (w/silver bullet): D: 134 Delay: 582 (8.10ish seconds per shot before snapshot)

Dragonmaw: D:120 Delay: 660 (8.8ish seconds before snapshot)


Not counting triple procs it doesn't even look close. Only 10% less damage and a marginal higher delay (which actually opens up gear slots for a more efficient x/hit build) for a 1.4x frequency in /ra and ws? I mean, I figure it still won't beat kraken for VT, but it appears to be highest DOT yes?

The answer is yes, but obviously Coronach changes the game for RNG by a lot. It's kinda unfair to over-generalize it and say Dragonmaw > Annihilator, but I'm working toward the gun and cannot wait to see how it works first-hand. I think you hit on one of its greatest advantages and that's the ease of a 5-hit build with /war... Mekki, Rajas and Skadi legs and you're done.

Questions still on my mind:
1) Do you get 2x TP for double attacks? You never know, it could just be double damage like mythic.
2) Does double proc work on Barrage? Because if it does, then hoooooooly shit.

[Rionel]

I did the Additional Effect: DEF Down+10 scythe and the the +10 is the def% it reduced by.
You can use /check to work it out ^^ or just go to PVP the +5 was 5%(5/6 Trail weapon) and the +10 was 10%

Anyhow Data:
Duration is 30 secs
The proc rate cap is around 50% on weaker mobs
On harder mobs that arn't resistant to Def down it's about 20%-35% proc rate.

thats what i got from using it in Einherjar, Dyna-Bast, Limbus

o and ya can't parse the rate because it doesn't overwrite it's self :X

Edit i did hear that the proc rate on the Fay weapons varied alot with Delay thats why i did one with a 528 scythe on these trails but until i see a sword or dagger def down weapon i'll not know

Hmm... so looking down the list of effects I've seen, I can only -guess- they work like this then based of that criteria:

Weakens Atk: -10% ATK
Impairs Evasion: -10 EVA
Lowers Accuracy: -10 ACC
Lowers Magic Eva: -10 Magic EVA
Lowers Magic Atk: -10% MAB?
Weakens Defense: -10% DEF
Lowers Mag.Def: -10% MDB?
Lowers Mag.Acc: -10 MACC

I wonder if these are all wind-based status effects like Def Down? It's too bad they aren't just non-elemental... though I'm very surprised to see these proc so often. It would be kind of fun for something like DNC to have some of these enfeebling daggers as they would probably stack with their steps since they're separate effects.

- Quick Step Lv.5 with Impairs Eva would be -34 EVA. Adding Desperate Flourish would actually be -44 EVA assuming the mob wouldn't resist Gravity.

- Unfortunately for the Weakens Def. effect, Acids Bolts Def Down is overwritten by Angon, so I doubt the Weakens Def. effect would stack with it. However Lv.5 Box Step + Weakens Def is still -23% DEF by itself. Adding Dia II/III would make it 33%/38%!

- Stutter Step doesn't have any solid numbers yet, but I can only assume that stacking Stutter Step with Lowers Mag.Eva would be an interesting effect. Mixing that with BRD Threnody (I wonder if people actually use those?) would be kind of interesting as well.

- The last one I could see being useful is the Weakens Mag.Def one for obvious reasons of nuking and whatnot!

The other ones... I'm not so sure about their usefulness, but would rather provide really situational debuffs.

- Weakens Atk + Bio III would actually be -25% ATK. I wonder if that would be useful for tanking or anything...

- Lowers Acc. + Blind/Kurayami etc would be cool for EVA tanking. Probably more of a solo-ing thing.

- Lowers Magic.Atk seems kind of... okay. I guess if you mixed it with Shellra V it would be kinda effective.

- Lowers Magic.Acc doesn't seem very useful to me. Maybe if you mixed it with Fenrir's Favor and Carols/Barspells?

Just some theory crafting really. I wonder also if these effects will be strengthened even more with future updates?

[Malacite]

Ok I also went back (a fourth time?) to review the vid and.....

If you go back to the translated vid and add in what we now know, its more apparent.

The magian weapons are the ones that they said would be in the "first" release (March). These are the ones they referred to as being the "suitable" weapon to hand in to the moogle for upgrades (on the website.)

The relics and mythics were referred to in a separate group. The reference to a third set of ultimate weapons was referring to the upgraded relics / mythics and in that sense, the upgraded relics / mythics are successors to the non-upgraded ones. So, in that way, the magians are not part of that.

Since they said these were 2 branches and would be introduced in the first release, its clear that is what we have. The remaining 3 branches have not been released.

That's not what happened. They talk about the Ultimate Weapons in the 1st part of the trials, and then afterwards mention that you can also upgrade Relics & Mythics. He did actually say that the Relics & Mythics are actually used for these ultimates (though it's not hard to imagine that they would be) instead of a new set of base weapons. All this ambiguity... ARGH!

Do I need a Relic/Mythic to begin with or not?! That's all I want to know . _ . (just once would it kill SE not to be vague?)

[Rionel]

Imagine if you needed both a Relic and a Mythic to create this so-called Ultimate Weapon...

As if making those didn't take enough time as it is!

[Vodou]

That's not what happened. They talk about the Ultimate Weapons in the 1st part of the trials, and then afterwards mention that you can also upgrade Relics & Mythics. He did actually say that the Relics & Mythics are actually used for these ultimates (though it's not hard to imagine that they would be) instead of a new set of base weapons. All this ambiguity... ARGH!

Do I need a Relic/Mythic to begin with or not?! That's all I want to know . _ . (just once would it kill SE not to be vague?)

Fujito is the one who explains the Magians system and the FIRST use of the word ultimates only comes AFTER he has covered and finished discussing the magians weapons and the other 3 categories and THEN discusses the relics. That is what he calls the ultimate weapon category. Just look at the vid.

If you want to say otherwise, then just post excerpts from the vid or the POL website.

[NynJa]

I wonder if these are all wind-based status effects like Def Down? It's too bad they aren't just non-elemental... though I'm very surprised to see these proc so often. It would be kind of fun for something like DNC to have some of these enfeebling daggers as they would probably stack with their steps since they're separate effects.

They arent...
Def is associated to earth, therefor def down is associaetd to wind (Wind > Earth). Attack is related to fire, attack down effects are related to water (water > fire). They all work like so:
Evasion = Wind -> Eva Down = Ice.
Accuracy = Thunder -> Acc down = Earth

[Uzor]

I dread to see what kind of sick trials SE can think up for the armor.

"Take a total of 100,000 points of damage"
"Take a total of 10,000 points of Dark damage"
"Take at least 2500 points of damage 10 times"
"Evade 1000 times"

[Atomic Skull]

"Take at least 2500 points of damage 10 times"

Eat Everyone's Rancor 10x

"Evade 1000 times"

Tank an EP chigoe as THF.

[Kuwait-cafe]

Update on La Velue, his placeholder is either the 10th or 22nd in the cluster of Smilodons around G/H-8. I'll probably know for sure after the next kill.

Edit: Absolutely certain it's #10 now.

is this counting down from widescan? because they break up into groups and i am not sure where to start the count

[Cleverness]

How good are the ninja weapons with this data?
I dont know if i want to grab a mozu+ DA combo or if i want to use a DA+ perdu combo.

I started working on Mozu first since I was afraid the OAT trait would suck(on the last trial where I need 6 Capricornus kills). I'd most definitely work on getting that for MH since not much else aside from Kikoku would beat it due to the base damage on it. With regards to the OAT weapon in the offhand, it'd probably be safer to just wait for someone to get it and do a parse against a Fortification with the 2.

[Xanthe]

Hmm... so looking down the list of effects I've seen, I can only -guess- they work like this then based of that criteria:

Weakens Atk: -10% ATK Water
Impairs Evasion: -10 EVA Ice
Lowers Accuracy: -10 ACC Earth
Lowers Magic Eva: -10 Magic EVA Dark
Lowers Magic Atk: -10% MAB? Fire
Weakens Defense: -10% DEF Wind
Lowers Mag.Def: -10% MDB? Thunder
Lowers Mag.Acc: -10 MACC Light

I wonder if these are all wind-based status effects like Def Down? It's too bad they aren't just non-elemental...

Stat debuffs are based on the element strong to what they are debuffing e.g. defense is earth, so defense down is wind. See bold type for likely affinities. M.Acc and M.Eva are determined by the two remaining elements and following the pattern of using the element strong to the trial's element.

[Konda]

or... I'd hazard a guess that they're based on the element of the day/weather you've been doing all that killing on for the trial to get to them.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Haven't revisited thread in a few days, but was the Hagun vs. Kurodachi thing ever settled? Additionally, if Hagun is still in the lead under some circumstances, would this change if the user didn't have some STP body/Usu feet to six-hit without TPing in Hachiman? Lastly, was there any word on Kurodachi vs. Tomoe?

[mdkuser]

Haven't revisited thread in a few days, but was the Hagun vs. Kurodachi thing ever settled? Additionally, if Hagun is still in the lead under some circumstances, would this change if the user didn't have some STP body/Usu feet to six-hit without TPing in Hachiman? Lastly, was there any word on Kurodachi vs. Tomoe?

Neither hagun nor Kurodachi require usukane to be competitive ( usukane is a side grade for hagun), while 480 delay polearms and 5 hits great katanas require body+feet ( for maximum haste set up). So raden with 40% OAT is a clear winner over hagun, ~4% increase, which is the same improvement as hagun over onimaru.

For Kurodachi versus polearm well you need to be decently attack and accuracy buffed for polearm to beat a great katana on non piercing mobs, and a non usukane sam will have a 3% haste penalty, but should still win in a zerg or any capped accuracy + minuet+ chao's situation. keep in mind that love halleberd require zero store TP piece and is always better than 480 delay.

[Shinryuu]

He wasn't talking about Raden. Raden sucks, Hagun will always beat it.

[Xanthe]

or... I'd hazard a guess that they're based on the element of the day/weather you've been doing all that killing on for the trial to get to them.

That would make defense down earth based, which we already know isn't the case.

[Priran]

or... I'd hazard a guess that they're based on the element of the day/weather you've been doing all that killing on for the trial to get to them.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Frightful_Roar
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Infrasonics
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blast
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Awful_Eye

[Xanthe]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Frightful_Roar
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Infrasonics
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blast
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Awful_Eye

Knew I was forgetting some good supporting information. That about settles things.

[Konda]

assuming these weapons follow the same trends as the BLU spells (which they prolly will), I stand corrected

[Xanthe]

assuming these weapons follow the same trends as the BLU spells (which they prolly will), I stand corrected

It's not just that they would be following blue magic "trends", it's that they conform to the same rule every effect follows. Buffs and debuffs all have an associated element, as do stats. XXX down is associated with the element strong to the attribute being lowered. The simplest and oldest example would probably be the elemental DoT series of spells for BLM; Rasp, Drown, Choke, Burn, Frost, Shock.

Spoiled for the benefit of those who know already.

Spoiler: show

Affinities
VIT / Defense - Earth
MND / Magic Defense Bonus - Water
AGI / Evasion - Wind
STR / Attack - Fire
INT / Magic Attack Bonus - Ice
DEX / Accuracy - Thunder
CHR - Light

Rasp - Deals earth damage that lowers an enemy's Dexterity and gradually reduces its HP.
Drown - Deals water damage that lowers an enemy's Strength and gradually reduces its HP.
Choke - Deals wind damage that lowers an enemy's Vitality and gradually reduces its HP.
Burn - Deals fire damage that lowers an enemy's Intelligence and gradually reduces its HP.
Frost - Deals ice damage that lowers an enemy's Agility and gradually reduces its HP.
Shock - Deals lightning damage that lowers an enemy's Mind and gradually reduces its HP.

Light and Dark lack precedents, but using the pattern already established by the other elemental DoTs and trials we can assume the following:

Affinities
Magic Evasion - Light
Magic Accuracy - Dark

Magic Accuracy Down - Light
Magic Evasion Down - Dark