Final Form Magian Weapons

[Cream Soda]

Because they didn't even do anything and someone who was contributing wanted the POUCH, wasn't even a single coin they wanted the pouch for 1 coin.

They came in about halfway in the run, almost wiped us by feeding tp like a mofo, then wanted the pouch solo lot? lol

Not to mention I already had 25 coins when this was done, took a week to get the last 5, spamming runs whenever possible.

The build up to this point is what took the majority of the time. I just had shitty luck w/ drops and lotting, provided it wasn't my own run/solo lotting.

Could never get into crabs or antlions dualbox without someone else coming in and competing, either.

[dasva]

Because they didn't even do anything and someone who was contributing wanted the POUCH, wasn't even a single coin they wanted the pouch for 1 coin.

They came in about halfway in the run, almost wiped us by feeding tp like a mofo, then wanted the pouch solo lot? lol

Not to mention I already had 25 coins when this was done, took a week to get the last 5, spamming runs whenever possible.

The build up to this point is what took the majority of the time. I just had shitty luck w/ drops and lotting, provided it wasn't my own run/solo lotting.

Could never get into crabs or antlions dualbox without someone else coming in and competing, either.

In hindsight wouldn't it just have been better to give it to them? I mean I help people finish random things all the time because lets face it the majority of players are assholes especially when they are almost finished with something and will sell out there own mother to get that last whatever in. Better to help them finish and get them out of your way

[Cream Soda]

Except for I wasn't the person who wouldn't pass. They expected me to just be able to tell the others not to lot. Even if I did, 99% sure the guy in the pick up run wouldn't have given a shit lol. I was the leader of the pt so I got punished for it, lol

[Juxtaposition]

Who the fuck cares, this isn't a problem anymore.

[Darkmagi]

So more like just bad luck and pissing off the right people. Happens with empyreans too. I remember one time trying to get bugard KI for sobek and no one was there. Kill first bugard go back to spawn point and litterally over 20 people were now camping the ??? in the couple of minutes it took me to kill and no one was willing to take turns or anything so my help ended up timing out before we even got to the 2nd pop...

I've watched LSs just camp the ??? while others farmed pops so they could almost non stop pop for there full allaince and would get pissed if you managed to get 1 pop in like they owned the nm for the next several hours. And I say that long because most of the time they'd have really weird ghetto setups at the nm to keep the kill speed on the pop item monsters (and maybe other nms) up so would take forever to kill. That and they'd often have to wait for proccers to come over...

Or people taking mobs as soon as they go yellow just from kiting/pulling...

As far as WoE goes I've never not gotten top 5 and I'd say average of like .75-1 pouches in that. So I actually much preferred having more people there so could actually win vs too small of a group but being able to lot dropped coins.

You can easily dualbox any empyrean to 85 within 3 days. Shout for people who need +2 shit and you have set holders and a 3rd to complete red procing if not cleaving.

[Mojo]

I spent 6 hours camping Zo'Khu Blackcloud yesterday for it to pop once. It took me about 10 hours to get 50 Carabosse Gems. Why people do WoE weapons is quizzical to me.

[Taint]

I spent 6 hours camping Zo'Khu Blackcloud yesterday for it to pop once. It took me about 10 hours to get 50 Carabosse Gems. Why people do WoE weapons is quizzical to me.

Its really pretty simple. I did WoE Bow for instance because ODD on RA isn't as big of a deal, I got the 90 version almost instantly. (really lucky with coins of decay) Where as the Emp requires Fistule, Bukhis, Alfard. I rarely play RNG, so very fast access to JR and easier to keep it going to 99 was greater then sinking hours and hours into the emp NM. (Alfard is a time sink +1) Now with the 95 trial its an even better decision. Do emps for your mains and WoE for your secondary jobs.

[ronin sparthos]

I spent 6 hours camping Zo'Khu Blackcloud yesterday for it to pop once. It took me about 10 hours to get 50 Carabosse Gems. Why people do WoE weapons is quizzical to me.

I have many WoE weapons and the reason I did them is because between solos in WoE (with some very reasonable JP seacomming along with the occasional jerkass) and the LS runs, I racked up coins left and right as others passed on them for Empyreans.
Flux7 rained coins before this patch as well.

My main priority was to gain access to the empyrean weaponskills. The aftermaths on Gun/Bow are laughable, I directed funds (pre-Sisy crash) to my Emp Harp instead of the Almace which would have also needed and I really didn't care to be grinding out Glavoids ad infinitum for a GAxe/Dagger that I don't really play that often.

Factor in that most of this happened pre-Heroes brew/apoc nonsense and my decision was sound.

[Mojo]

On what grounds do you think ranged aftermaths are any different than other types? Unless the ratios between melee DoT/WS and ranged DoT/WS are hugely disproportionate, I don't see any reason why you would evaluate them differently. I haven't really thought about it too much, but considering that the number of strikes per WS is quite similar between two handed weapons and ranged weapons (the exception being maybe COR due to QD), I'd wager it's probably only disproportionate in singled handed weapons (which also involves other considerations like dual wield and such.)

Either way, I'm closing in on my sixth empyreon, which includes one weapon from every path other than Harp/Shield/Staff. Not trying to brag, just saying that I've done many of them at that in my experience, the majority of the time I invest in these weapons comes before the WoE/Empyreon split. If I'm going to spend 50+ hours grinding out shitty lottery NMs, I might as well invest the additional 30+ hours doing some other NMs (which will probably net you some gear and perhaps money if you sell other drops) for a superior weapon. I've also done a lot of WoE, mainly just to try and unlock other arenas (Fenrir WoE hasn't progressed very far), but enough to say that there is some time investment in acquiring coins that can differ greatly depending on luck and how you approach it. If you're like me and obtained those coins incidentally (going to WoE for reasons other than coins) than I still do not think that it's worth it. I'd rather just put in a (relatively) 'few' more hours and keep my HKC while I'm at it.

[Taint]

On what grounds do you think ranged aftermaths are any different than other types? Unless the ratios between melee DoT/WS and ranged DoT/WS are hugely disproportionate, I don't see any reason why you would evaluate them differently. I haven't really thought about it too much, but considering that the number of strikes per WS is quite similar between two handed weapons and ranged weapons (the exception being maybe COR due to QD), I'd wager it's probably only disproportionate in singled handed weapons (which also involves other considerations like dual wield and such.)

Either way, I'm closing in on my sixth empyreon, which includes one weapon from every path other than Harp/Shield/Staff. Not trying to brag, just saying that I've done many of them at that in my experience, the majority of the time I invest in these weapons comes before the WoE/Empyreon split. If I'm going to spend 50+ hours grinding out shitty lottery NMs, I might as well invest the additional 30+ hours doing some other NMs (which will probably net you some gear and perhaps money if you sell other drops) for a superior weapon. I've also done a lot of WoE, mainly just to try and unlock other arenas (Fenrir WoE hasn't progressed very far), but enough to say that there is some time investment in acquiring coins that can differ greatly depending on luck and how you approach it. If you're like me and obtained those coins incidentally (going to WoE for reasons other than coins) than I still do not think that it's worth it. I'd rather just put in a (relatively) 'few' more hours and keep my HKC while I'm at it.

No doubt I'll have my 4th emp done (3 90s, 1 85) as soon as I'm done lvling everything to 95. Ofcourse Emps are better then their WoE counters. But as emps get harder and harder to maintain at maximum level the WoE become more attractive options. 85 emps are a breeze, the 90 trials take longer and the 95 is looking to be a long haul task. People are already selling Dice in bazaars on Cerb and I have yet to see a metal plate. I'm positive my bow will be my first emp/woe path weapon to 95 and with most emps stuck at 85 (esp alfard/apa emps) my 95 bow will be damn close to its emp counter with 1/5 the work/time. (maybe less, I got 20+ decay on 1 run) Gandiva would be sweet to have, I even have a bunch of fist and buk items already, but doing Alfard and then collecting 1500 metal plates for a job that I'll rarely use doesn't seem like the best use of time.

If you have an alt account its pretty nice to camp 2-3 sets of NMs at once for various trials. I did GA, GS and H2H all at the same time and just rotated camps. It was less boring and there was 0 waiting around for the window to open back up.

[Mojo]

Well, I won't argue that 1500 metal plates is going to greatly affect the difficulty of completing an empyreon (I'd say they're probably more difficult than relic weapons at this point.) However, even a 90 empyreon is probably going to be better than a 99 WoE. So again you're left with similar (or perhaps less if you consider WoE 95 + 99) amount of effort for a subpar weapon.

Also, I'd say that any 90 path is easier than any 85 or 80 path. Alfard is perhaps one of the easiest of all paths. You can toss money at this one. Just buy pop sets and give them for people who want drops. If you don't like this idea, then try making them pay for a pop set and lock the cards/etc. to them, or just sell the cards. Pop sets are like 30K~50K on Fenrir, so it's not even a big deal either way.

[Cream Soda]

The char I dbox is now used by 4 ppl (lol it's my rl friends, used to just be me and him) and can't rly solo a lot of the shit, so dboxing isn't rly much of an option 99% of the time anymore.

[dasva]

Yeah you say how easy/fast it is to get empyreans but that's only if you got the right stuff. I mean I sat on lvl 80 empyrean gun for around 6 months because I lost the little help I had getting it to 80 and let me tell you trying to claim frog and solo it and proc it when your best proc job is rdm/war... yeah at that rate each pop ended up taking on average 2-3 hours from start to finish so I gave up for awhile.

Recently lvl nin and made a whm mule and it still took 2 weeks solid to get to lvl 80 kanagi spending several hours a day and buying all my pops for 20-30k each. Then spent another 2 weeks though not everyday to get done with sobek. This went a bit faster since I made a 3rd account and had some returning friends to hold KIs while I blu burned them. But it still was more time alone then I'd spent doing WoE total.

I farmed even coins solo without a mule in 1 week 2-3 runs a day to make empyrean gun and swd. And I got another 4 coins of birth and 16 of decay that I'm thinking of using. If I had my mule and/or a little help to actually win more than a small handful when there was enough other soloers to win would've been even faster since I always top 5. And instead of costing me 3mil in pops and who knows how much in food to try and shave more time off it actually netted me some since some of the items were still worth something lol. Plus luminian ore to help finish up my goldsmithing

[Mojo]

Not having a good proc job isn't a legitimate reason for this. All it takes to get a class to 90 is some small amount of gil to pay for FC party to level your NIN to 90. I did four of the 80 stage empyreon solo, and three of the 85 stages/one of the 90 stages before I had an alt. A dual box character isn't necessary, it's really not difficult to assemble a PUG to do your bidding if it comes down to it (although I opted not to lot any of the AF3 materials when I did this.) If it's taking you that much time to do things then you're not being efficient because it only took me about 50 minutes average to do Briareus solo (this includes everything from farming the lower tier items to killing Briareus.)

I'm not trying to boast or talk down to anybody, just saying that any capable player can finish an empyreon in a timely manner as long as you find ways to get it done instead of look for reasons why it can't be done.

[dasva]

Why do you think I took a break from that and lvld nin?

The time it took was all the damn running mostly and the fact it was a job I had just burned up and competetion was kinda rediculous. On average I waited on 2 pops per NM before I could pop. Occasionally ass clowns would run up and just skip the line.

Can empyreans be done by anyone? Sure. But trying to say it takes less manhours than WoE weapon is foolhardy. Though tbh it was alot faster before the merger... stupid merger

[Mojo]

I'm not asserting that it's less manhours, simply pointing out that people are too quick to shirk off the amount of effort required to even get to the point of WoE vs Abyssea. When you stack that on, the workloads are similar enough that I just don't see the point in going WoE.

[DNAval]

about 6 months ago when i started thinking about empy's i thought of doing WoE weapon cause it seemed easier @ the time, now from a different point of view on it of the people saying its faster. My friend finished his WoE katana in about 1 week he did it with a group of 4, out of that group 2 people wanted katana items but were passed to my friend first. I made a similar group of 4 and i was the only one that wanted katana and after 3 weeks of sitting on 17 coins of glory i gave up, I guess I just had bad luck. In this game random is random and Empy for me > WoE just on the fact that i have the worst luck on this game.

2 empys for me 2 empys for wife and 3 others in the making, my only regret is the 3 weeks i spent trying to gather coins.

[dasva]

Ah yeah someone else was trying to say that. Though really I don't mind the camping most the nms. Most of them spawn fairly decently and set times like that give me time to work other things in better. That and I often get to afk for some of the kills. Notably exceptions would be say taking 18+ hours to pop bugbear or camping the pot for 6 hours taking a 2 hour nap to have it spawn then and then camping another 8 to get next.

[NynJa]

Am I misunderstanding something? Why are you guys talking about the NM trials like its different for WoE or real version?

[Leva]

Am I misunderstanding something? Why are you guys talking about the NM trials like its different for WoE or real version?

I too thought this, plus it's Empyrean Mojo!!