Final Form Magian Weapons

[Dotsudoku]

Am I misunderstanding something? Why are you guys talking about the NM trials like its different for WoE or real version?

You're missing his point. Mojo is saying that the majority of the timesink involved in building WoE/Emp weapons is the pre-trials, so deciding to build an Emp instead of a WoE is going to involve relatively little additional effort in the grand scheme of the process.

[Taint]

You're missing his point. Mojo is saying that the majority of the timesink involved in building WoE/Emp weapons is the pre-trials, so deciding to build an Emp instead of a WoE is going to involve relatively little additional effort in the grand scheme of the process.

The NM camping/VNMs really doesn't take that long if you plan them right or do multiples as I stated earlier. Since everyone has a mule you can camp NMs on your mule and play on your main. Hell I'm sure most people with Emps AFKed atleast part of their NM camping while in a group.

[Falaras]

I spent 6 hours camping Zo'Khu Blackcloud yesterday for it to pop once. It took me about 10 hours to get 50 Carabosse Gems. Why people do WoE weapons is quizzical to me.

Carabosse is on a whole different level than the other empyreans. Not to mention you can do multiple fake empyreans at a time and it's a whole different way of obtaining them. For instance I do everything duo with maybe a dual box and find the action of cleaving to be the most boring thing in this game. If I wanted to get Vere I would have to cleave for it, and at best could carry 3 pops at once. That would probably mean I'd have to spend at least 8 or so nights cleaving away to get the 50 Buds, each time having to rebuild lights in the shittiest zone to build lights in. This is just for the base 80 weapon also, given that I definitely would not feel like cleaving every night for a week I would probably be looking at two weeks to get only the 80 weapon. Getting a Vsmite WoE weapon would not only take significantly less time, but would entail more fun (again I hate cleaving), and allow you to work on multiple weapons at the same time.

[Mafai]

Carabosse is on a whole different level than the other empyreans. Not to mention you can do multiple fake empyreans at a time and it's a whole different way of obtaining them. For instance I do everything duo with maybe a dual box and find the action of cleaving to be the most boring thing in this game. If I wanted to get Vere I would have to cleave for it, and at best could carry 3 pops at once. That would probably mean I'd have to spend at least 8 or so nights cleaving away to get the 50 Buds, each time having to rebuild lights in the shittiest zone to build lights in. This is just for the base 80 weapon also, given that I definitely would not feel like cleaving every night for a week I would probably be looking at two weeks to get only the 80 weapon. Getting a Vsmite WoE weapon would not only take significantly less time, but would entail more fun (again I hate cleaving), and allow you to work on multiple weapons at the same time.

Why do you have to cleave? I don't know your jobs, but I see a NIN ss in your uploads. Pop the NM and flux it if you can't proc. Or better yet, shout for a WAR that needs Balance items from Chloris and you can hold 4 pops and be done in a very short time (assuming you buy pop items). If you have to farm the items, it will take a bit longer.

[Juxtaposition]

I'm doing WoE weapons because its new to me and fuck doing Abyssea for jobs I don't really care about.

[dasva]

Why do you have to cleave? I don't know your jobs, but I see a NIN ss in your uploads. Pop the NM and flux it if you can't proc. Or better yet, shout for a WAR that needs Balance items from Chloris and you can hold 4 pops and be done in a very short time (assuming you buy pop items). If you have to farm the items, it will take a bit longer.

You don't have to but it will often be faster if you have a couple of KI holders. Especially with a time spawn in there. Not to mention all the running and fighting time

[Mojo]

You're missing his point. Mojo is saying that the majority of the timesink involved in building WoE/Emp weapons is the pre-trials, so deciding to build an Emp instead of a WoE is going to involve relatively little additional effort in the grand scheme of the process.

This exactly.

Carabosse is on a whole different level than the other empyreans. Not to mention you can do multiple fake empyreans at a time and it's a whole different way of obtaining them. For instance I do everything duo with maybe a dual box and find the action of cleaving to be the most boring thing in this game. If I wanted to get Vere I would have to cleave for it, and at best could carry 3 pops at once. That would probably mean I'd have to spend at least 8 or so nights cleaving away to get the 50 Buds, each time having to rebuild lights in the shittiest zone to build lights in. This is just for the base 80 weapon also, given that I definitely would not feel like cleaving every night for a week I would probably be looking at two weeks to get only the 80 weapon. Getting a Vsmite WoE weapon would not only take significantly less time, but would entail more fun (again I hate cleaving), and allow you to work on multiple weapons at the same time.

Verethragna is probably the Empyrean that has the largest 80 time discrepancy between the WoE version, and I still assert that your claim is somewhat exaggerated. I did all most of my 50 Chloris Buds solo on NIN, which is something that anybody can do. It took me around 100 minutes per Chloris, perhaps less, and this included farming all of the items and doing the NMs and such. I got double drops about 50% of the time. Overall, it shouldn't take anyone more than 56 hours for 75 > 80 unless they're being horribly inefficient. 85 and 90 took about 10 hours each, perhaps less (2 NMs for 85, cleave + conflux brew for 90.) The 21 lottery NMs and 22 VNMs took at least 50 hours, probably more than 60 realistically. Overall, a rough estimate for the time I spent is probably around 135~145 hours? For the WoE version, I can't say how much time it took me to get coins cause I never tried lotting any. Maybe you can provide some kind of fair estimate. I'll just go with 10 hours. So for the WoE version, you're looking at 60~70 hours?

So about twice the time if you're stuck doing Chloris solo in a horrible and shitty fashion as I had to. It would certainly take much less time for you if you can tri-box. Regardless, I suppose that is significant, if you view it as some kind of percentage. The way I view it is that after doing the lottery NMs, you're already at least half-way there, more-so if you have multiple characters. Why waste that effort getting a weapon that is inferior in several ways to something else that you have done at least half of the work for already? And again, Vere path is the example of where the ratio of time investment between Empyrean and WoE is going to be the highest. It's better with all of the other weapons.

[dasva]

Well theres a bit of a difference on the time on the lotto nms and rest.


The nm part is largely just waiting time. Waiting for NM respawn waiting for PH respawns. For some people the waiting time isn't even a factor since they have other things they can or need to do in that time. For some the time in days or whatever from start to finish is less important than the time at PC actively working on it. Partly because time at PC may be limited and such. Ie most people that work a decent amount. Plus the whole you team up with a group and can afk for some of it. I think I spent all of about 10 hours at most actively engaged in getting my kanagi to the abyssea stage lol.

[Falaras]

So about twice the time if you're stuck doing Chloris solo in a horrible and shitty fashion as I had to. It would certainly take much less time for you if you can tri-box. Regardless, I suppose that is significant, if you view it as some kind of percentage. The way I view it is that after doing the lottery NMs, you're already at least half-way there, more-so if you have multiple characters. Why waste that effort getting a weapon that is inferior in several ways to something else that you have done at least half of the work for already? And again, Vere path is the example of where the ratio of time investment between Empyrean and WoE is going to be the highest. It's better with all of the other weapons.

The problem I have with what you are saying is that the pretrials really don't take that much time unless you get very unlucky or are sitting there for the hour window after you kill the NM waiting for it to be able to respawn. I can tell you doing my Masamune trials I actively camped for probably 5 hours, the rest of the time I was sleeping or doing something else, while sitting in a party or alliance of other people that can actively camp for me. The hardest part of the pretrials was the 6-8 hours spent doing the VNMs but at least that wasn't entirely boring to do. So overall I probably spent 13 hours on Masamune pre trials at best.

[Esvedium]

The problem I have with what you are saying is that the pretrials really don't take that much time unless you get very unlucky or are sitting there for the hour window after you kill the NM waiting for it to be able to respawn. I can tell you doing my Masamune trials I actively camped for probably 5 hours, the rest of the time I was sleeping or doing something else, while sitting in a party or alliance of other people that can actively camp for me. The hardest part of the pretrials was the 6-8 hours spent doing the VNMs but at least that wasn't entirely boring to do. So overall I probably spent 13 hours on Masamune pre trials at best.

I got a lot of reading done while camping the pre-aby NMs for my kannagi and while working on my gkat trials. It's similar to the argument people made about olde tymie HNMs, that you could get a lot done in those ~29 minutes between windows if you wanted. They might not be faster in overall time spent, but it seems to go by much faster as I can be productive between pops.

[Toshiko]

Spoiler: show

I got a lot of reading done while camping the pre-aby NMs for my kannagi and while working on my gkat trials. It's similar to the argument people made about olde tymie HNMs, that you could get a lot done in those ~29 minutes between windows if you wanted. They might not be faster in overall time spent, but it seems to go by much faster as I can be productive between pops.

It's not that this assumption is wrong, but I think with most players- when they sit down to play the game, they want to play the game and not do dick all while playing the game once every 1+ hours. Although I agree that the pre-nm trials to empys are the 'easy part,' they are also usually the most 'time consuming part,' assuming your group is moderatly good at abyssea.

[Gasgul]

wrong thread,

[Fiendishone]

This is my BOOMSTICK

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...XI/Cannon7.png

[Colenzo]

how much more badass is the quickdraw bonus now?

[Fiendishone]

Just the base damage increased, same enhanced QD as the lvl 90 version. Want to find that friggin sexy ass mab + bullet so i can curse up a storm on vent when i don't macro it out (no, I don't use spellcast to don't go there) after a QD and fire it off accidentally. Unless SE actually added it to the list of ammo you can't use. Cuz you know, that would actually be smart of them.

[Colenzo]

Just the base damage increased, same enhanced QD as the lvl 90 version. Want to find that friggin sexy ass mab + bullet so i can curse up a storm on vent when i don't macro it out (no, I don't use spellcast to don't go there) after a QD and fire it off accidentally. Unless SE actually added it to the list of ammo you can't use. Cuz you know, that would actually be smart of them.

i wasted so many oberon's bullets like this, i know your pain lol

[Shenrien]

http://i53.tinypic.com/25u6s6d.png

that was a fun 5 days, now for my Almace & Verethragna.

[SteveMc]

Grats cat.

[Gun-it]

Where is your gil?

[Esvedium]

Just the base damage increased, same enhanced QD as the lvl 90 version. Want to find that friggin sexy ass mab + bullet so i can curse up a storm on vent when i don't macro it out (no, I don't use spellcast to don't go there) after a QD and fire it off accidentally. Unless SE actually added it to the list of ammo you can't use. Cuz you know, that would actually be smart of them.

You're obviously using windower, why don't you use Spellcast? Not trying to convince you, just curious.