Final Form Magian Weapons

[Flic]

So how does OAT bow stack up againt 5 hit e bow set up ? or is gun the better route ?

[Suteru]

The gun has a delay of 660, though I'm not sure what the calculations for TP return on ranged are.

I'm done with everything but the eyes for the gun, but I don't really have a current LS to do VNM with.

[Vodou]

So how does OAT bow stack up againt 5 hit e bow set up ? or is gun the better route ?

Haven't seen much if any math on it.

Edit: needs more math.

Discussion for math-wise to correct and augment (lol).

Bows:

Assuming 319,640 frames (ignoring JA's / WS, etc.), relic has 610 attacks (delay 524, tp 15.1) with base damage of 124 (bow / augment / kabura). Magian has 524 attack rounds (delay 610, tp 15.7) with 40% OAT for 733 total attacks at base damage of 100 (bow + kabura). Relic has 20% fewer attacks with 24% more damage.

The extra TP on the magian bow will allow a gear swap, but not a reduction in standard x-hits afaik. But, assuming SW is used and held to 150% tp (standard method), the relic will do 20% more Namas but at around 20-25% less damage.

This ignores the racc and ratt on relic (including the aftermath effect), and weapon rank. It ignores what beneficial gear can be swapped on magian with a higher tp. I think taking these into account, relic will still do more damage. The -enmity where ever its a factor, makes it better.

Guns:

Assuming 384,120 frames (ignoring JA's / WS, etc.), relic has 660 attacks (delay 582, tp 16.6) with base damage of 134 (gun + augment + silver). Magian has 582 attack rounds (delay 660, tp 17.2) with 40% OAT for 814 total attacks at base damage of 100 (gun + silver). Relic has 23% fewer attacks with 10% more damage.

Again, the extra TP on the magian gun will allow a gear swap, but not a reduction in standard x-hits afaik. But, assuming SS is used and held to 150% tp (standard method), the relic will do 17% more Coronach but at around 20-25% less damage.

Again, I did not take into account the gun attributes, weapon rank or the -enmity effects, but the magian gun seems like it will out damage the relic unless damage is being held.

I haven't added in any snaphot math for either btw and I've ignored the relic triple procs. I haven't considered the importance of range effects which are likely different for each of the 4 weapons.

[miokomioko]

I've been searching it for a bit and found nothing but people sad about the "Occ. atk. twice" on Wargfangs. I'm wondering what the fuck the differences are between the two fully upgraded Wargfangs are. Why would you go for the Trial-78 version if it has DMG+0? Is it that it takes like two less trials to complete and is simply weaker?

[Priran]

Is it really that hard to understand? I mean, I understand why there's a "OMG THIS MUST BE A BUG" comment about it on FFXIclopedia, because those people are fucking stupid. But come on.

Killing 1500 EPs is soloable and takes much less time than killing a HNM enough times to get the 10 drops you need. Less effort = crappier weapon.

[Narol]

I've been searching it for a bit and found nothing but people sad about the "Occ. atk. twice" on Wargfangs. I'm wondering what the fuck the differences are between the two fully upgraded Wargfangs are. Why would you go for the Trial-78 version if it has DMG+0? Is it that it takes like two less trials to complete and is simply weaker?

I know it (likely) doesn't work this way, but it would truly amuse me if the damage+0 version could attack twice on both fists. You know, SE basically trolling every MNK in existence.

[miokomioko]

Is it really that hard to understand? I mean, I understand why there's a "OMG THIS MUST BE A BUG" comment about it on FFXIclopedia, because those people are fucking stupid. But come on.

Killing 1500 EPs is soloable and takes much less time than killing a HNM enough times to get the 10 drops you need. Less effort = crappier weapon.

I didn't look into what exactly each individual trial's target mobs/items were, and I didn't imagine that there would be such a huge gap in difficulty between the two weapons... asshole.

[jimbobsonofgod]

I've been searching it for a bit and found nothing but people sad about the "Occ. atk. twice" on Wargfangs.

I didn't look into what exactly each individual trial's target mobs/items were,

Good looking skills you got there sir.

[miokomioko]

Good looking skills you got there sir.

You must be new to the forum's search function as well as reading comprehension. Now move on.

[jimbobsonofgod]

You must be new to the forum's search function as well as reading comprehension. Now move on.

Cause searching the internet is hard
Here you go.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Hand-to-Hand_Trials

If you are unable to click the links to the specific trials in question maybe I can help you out with that to. It seems like you have an apparent inability to navigate the internet in your "Search" about wargfangs.

Not to mention you could also have checked individual trials at the Magian moogle yourself.

[Quizno]

"Reading comprehension" = the new "yo' momma so fat"

[Demosthenes11]

Killing 1500 EPs is soloable and takes much less time than killing a HNM enough times to get the 10 drops you need. Less effort = crappier weapon.

you can solo tier III pops with about 3-4 friends in around 2-3 hours. Average drop rate with TH4 on tier III magian items seem to be about 1.3. It's not too monotonous and you also get chances at great rings (in the case of str and mnd) + craftables.

Compare that with the monotony of killing 1500 of the same mob over and over (usually at the rate of 1/min) and you want to beat your head into a wall very quickly

I got my OAT gkt yesterday and it was way less effort than killing all those mobs would have been

[Shadida]

you can solo tier III pops with about 3-4 friends

Wait, what?

But yeah... farming T3s isn't so bad as long as you have a capable group. I just hope the drops are kind to me... want to see 2x eye of verthandi off all three tomorrow lol.

For those wondering, gun is an easy 5-hit with Mekki Shakki, Rajas and Skadi's Chausses. Firing a 660 delay weapon is pretty slow but 5x snapshot merits and full snapshot gear (Zha'Go + Mirke) makes it a lot LOT faster.

[Priran]

you can solo tier III pops with about 3-4 friends in around 2-3 hours. Average drop rate with TH4 on tier III magian items seem to be about 1.3. It's not too monotonous and you also get chances at great rings (in the case of str and mnd) + craftables.

Compare that with the monotony of killing 1500 of the same mob over and over (usually at the rate of 1/min) and you want to beat your head into a wall very quickly

I got my OAT gkt yesterday and it was way less effort than killing all those mobs would have been

So about 64 man-hours for 1 weapon, or you could kill 1500 mobs with a party in about half that and get the entire group a weapon.

My point stands.

[NynJa]

I didn't look into what exactly each individual trial's target mobs/items were, and I didn't imagine that there would be such a huge gap in difficulty between the two weapons... asshole.

Are you just being a cunt?
Maybe you should LOOK INTO what you're fucking bitching about instead of just going "WHY ARE THERE MORE TRIALS IF THIS IS WEAKER?"

[Demosthenes11]

So about 64 man-hours for 1 weapon, or you could kill 1500 mobs with a party in about half that and get the entire group a weapon.

My point stands.

64*.5*6, 192 man hours for what you just outlined. You people are so obsessed with efficiency when everyone spends half their time dicking around in WG wondering what to do.

Also, you completely ignored the part where tier III drops rings and synth mats as well, and even some good other drops (marching belt comes to mind)

[miokomioko]

I'm sorry you thought by "searched" I meant "I scoured the fucking internets high and low and I can't find a fucking thing for the life of me" when I actually was meaning "I just used the forum's search function for to see if there was any discussion of known differences between these two end-product weapons of the same name other than one's lack of DMG: because I was unaware that some trial paths were straight up easier to get through than others and yield shit weapons because of it."

Thanks for the information, fuckin' cock sharks.

[Kincard]

Know I'm probably not the first guy to get it, but...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/Symbios/Mozu.jpg

I'm sure most of you are going "lolNIN", but eh. I guess I'll go give it a test whirl tomorrow and report back here for any curious NINs if nobody else reports before then.

[Ragnus]

Please please please test that weapon. I'd love to finally retire my Senju.

Kinda wondering if the Dex/Acc one is better than Perdu also in uncapped acc situations

[Cleverness]

I'm stuck on the last trial for that katana(need 6 Capricornus kills, no LS to do it with though and haven't had much luck getting a group for it like I did with the T2 scorp ;_; ), but ya I'd love to see the data on it.