Final Form Magian Weapons

[Tsuko_Asura]

Didn't look at her gear, but probably for a 5-hit

[Niiro]

I don't feel like doing the math, but does vulcans + rose strap not work for it?

If that 1 STP actually makes the difference that's just lame shit luck but tbh you'd prolly be better off using a brutal earring + some other earring anyway to make up the difference.

AGI+8 isn't all that useful for TPing anyway.

Not a RNG tho, just observations.

[Shadida]

My Sterling Star aside...

Presently my TP set gives 20.1 TP and my WS set gives 19.7. So WS + 4 hits = 100.1 TP.

Rose Strap alone gives 19.9 TP per hit and WS with my current gear would give 19.6, so obviously that wouldn't work, it would require the use of Brutal during TP and WS. Even WS'ing in Skadi pants would only give 20.1 TP.

So you're talking about STR+3 and whatever you're getting from earrings vs. R.atk+10... kinda splitting hairs at that point lol

[barber2006]

FINAL COLIBRI SHOWDOWN OF ULTIMATE DESTINY

Maridel WAR/SAM (Perdu)
Tigerwoods SAM/WAR (Tomoe)
Shadida RNG/WAR (Dragonmaw)
Kaworu COR/RNG (Joy+Martial)
Eade WHM/SCH
Ayer BRD/NIN

Damage Summary
Player               Total Dmg   Damage %   Melee Dmg   Range Dmg   Abil. Dmg  WSkill Dmg   Spell Dmg  Other Dmg
Kaworu                   52583     7.99 %       23023           0        2592       26968           0          0
Maridel                 165970    25.22 %       77206           0           0       86427           0       2337
Shadida                 197970    30.08 %         634       81997       12620      102719           0          0
Tigerwoods              239596    36.41 %       89495           0           0      149763           0        338
SC: Compression            105     0.02 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
SC: Fragmentation          572     0.09 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
SC: Transfixion           1294     0.20 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
Total                   658090   100.00 %      190358       81997       15212      365877           0       2675


Melee Damage
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi    M.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit%
Kaworu                23023   43.78 %    668/147   81.96 %      0/68    30.68     69    34/106   67.35   10.33 %
Maridel               77206   46.52 %     446/27   94.29 %    31/256   155.49     67   157/336  272.78   15.02 %
Shadida                 634    0.32 %      17/61   21.79 %      0/86    37.29      0       0/0    0.00    0.00 %
Tigerwoods            89495   37.35 %     541/73   88.11 %     0/278   151.95     58     0/387  277.67   10.72 %


Ranged Damage
Player            Range Dmg   Range %   Hit/Miss   R.Acc %  R.Low/Hi    R.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit%
Shadida               81997   41.42 %     269/29   90.27 %   119/441   298.88     27   155/503  358.11   10.04 %


Other Physical Damage  (Counterattacks and Retaliations)
Player            CA.Dmg  CA.Hit/Miss  CA.Low/Hi  CA.Avg   Ret.Dmg  Ret.Hit/Miss  Ret.Low/Hi  Ret.Avg
Maridel                0          0/0        0/0    0.00      2337          14/0      78/315   166.93
Tigerwoods           338          3/0     70/188  112.67         0           0/0         0/0     0.00


Weaponskill Damage
Player                 WSkill Dmg   WSkill %  Hit/Miss   WS.Acc %   WS.Low/Hi   WS.Avg
Kaworu                      26968    51.29 %      40/8    83.33 %      94/872   674.20
 - Slug Shot                26968   100.00 %      40/8    83.33 %      94/872   674.20
Maridel                     86427    52.07 %      91/0   100.00 %    267/1757   949.75
 - King's Justice           11479    13.28 %      14/0   100.00 %    435/1498   819.93
 - Penta Thrust              4203     4.86 %       5/0   100.00 %    486/1386   840.60
 - Raging Rush              70745    81.86 %      72/0   100.00 %    267/1757   982.57
Shadida                    102719    51.89 %     55/17    76.39 %    820/2678  1867.62
 - Slug Shot               102719   100.00 %     55/17    76.39 %    820/2678  1867.62
Tigerwoods                 149763    62.51 %     130/0   100.00 %      0/2284  1152.02
 - Penta Thrust            149763   100.00 %     130/0   100.00 %      0/2284  1152.02


Ability Damage
Player                  Abil. Dmg    Abil. %  Hit/Miss    A.Acc %    A.Low/Hi    A.Avg
Kaworu                       2592     4.93 %       9/0   100.00 %     133/444   288.00
 - Barrage                   2592   100.00 %       9/0   100.00 %     133/444   288.00
Shadida                     12620     6.37 %      10/0   100.00 %    562/1790  1262.00
 - Barrage                  12620   100.00 %      10/0   100.00 %    562/1790  1262.00
Tigerwoods                      0     0.00 %       5/0   100.00 %         0/0     0.00
 - Blade Bash                   0     0.00 %       5/0   100.00 %         0/0     0.00


Skillchain Damage
Skillchain          SC Dmg  # SC  SC.Low/Hi  SC.Avg
SC: Compression        105     1    105/105  105.00
SC: Fragmentation      572     2     55/517  286.00
SC: Transfixion       1294     2    303/991  647.00

Used Chaos+Corsair's for a while til we said fuck it, we'll kill Wivres too and switched to Chaos+Samurai. Again, double march for melees, pp min 4 for me.

So, while the Dragonmaw is very nice... it still can't contend with SAM with pimped gear, Overwhelm, full-time Hasso, Double Attack, and 2xMarch+Haste on birds.

inb4 nerf SAM

Some of the differential is because of you only getting one song. Adding Min III (I'm using all mobs as level 82 for easy math) you would be looking at doing 209056 damage. That's 11086 more. Not to mention the fact that when singing march x2 then single casting minuet, there are times where you will have duel marches before the bard can get around to giving you a song. It would be a pain in the ass for the bard, but if you are comparing yourself to a fully buffed sam, you need to be fully buffed as well even if it is 'not practical' since songs are usually tailored to 2h DD.

It still wouldn't be enough to win, but its very encouraging for several reasons:

1) If dragonmaw, and not the weaker oat gun, is the one that gets the eventual 3x and 4x attacks, it will be a force.

2) If skill caps continue to grow in disparity after the cap raise, a Sam's PA rating will bring it back to the pack some while a rangers native acc bonus trait will more than offset an "A" rating.

3) If SE ever delievers on that cryptic ja that 'occasionally fires 2 bullets' it could very well bring rng even in merit setups to the other strongest DD, even if it doesn't proc on dragonmaw multihits.

4) If none of this pans out, there is still kraken club.

[Shadida]

According to Parse, Minuet IV was active only about 70% of the time vs. Tiger/Maridel's 95% March active, so good points there.

Also one other note, breaking down parse for Wivres only:

Damage Summary
Player               Total Dmg   Damage %   Melee Dmg   Range Dmg   Abil. Dmg  WSkill Dmg   Spell Dmg  Other Dmg
Kaworu                    4393     9.32 %        2063           0         812        1518           0          0
Maridel                  14022    29.74 %        5531           0           0        8395           0         96
Shadida                  16923    35.89 %          26        6166        2533        8198           0          0
Tigerwoods               11816    25.06 %        4461           0           0        7167           0        188
Total                    47154   100.00 %       12081        6166        3345       25278           0        284

PDIF is a hell of a drug.

Counting double proc rate now...

[Vodou]

Ok, so I went through and counted the double procs and I came up with 90. So, of 341 ranged attacks, 180 of them were part of a double attack, and 161 were not. So I actually only performed 251 ranged attacks.

161 singles vs 90 doubles = 64.14% single, 35.86% double. Hmm...

If you mean, is 35.86% actually 40%?

With a sample size of 251, a 'real' rate of 40%, the CI is +/- 6.03% at 95% CL.

So you are well within the range predicted from the larger sample sizes done on melee weapons.

This assumes that not one of the "singles" was about to DA when the mob died. So, unless you manually reviewed this, I think the 35.86% is understated.

[Shadida]

Hm, you're right about that. Anyway, I just counted this so here you go:

305 RA's (the log continues beyond the parse a bit), 83 doubles, so 139 singles. 222 total RA's, 62% single, 38% double. I don't have time to eliminate the single kill shots but you're right Vodou - it probably is at least 40% if not 45%.

Motenten if you're still around, can you consider ranged attack double proc parsing for a future version update in Kparser? And while you're at it can you include some metric for the shots which were outside sweet spot, hit squrely, strikes true, and crit?

[Motenten]

Yeah, I'll put that in the Extra Attacks section. Didn't have it before for obvious reasons.

Will have to look at whether I can put in the range variance data. Not sure I have the space in the database to store it, though it's probably about time I actually made all those database revisions that have been piling up. Version migration will be a pain, though :/

Also (since your sig just reminded me), Hitler sadly no longer gets to learn about the level 99 cap.

[Cream Soda]

According to Parse, Minuet IV was active only about 70% of the time vs. Tiger/Maridel's 95% March active, so good points there.

Also one other note, breaking down parse for Wivres only:

Damage Summary
Player               Total Dmg   Damage %   Melee Dmg   Range Dmg   Abil. Dmg  WSkill Dmg   Spell Dmg  Other Dmg
Kaworu                    4393     9.32 %        2063           0         812        1518           0          0
Maridel                  14022    29.74 %        5531           0           0        8395           0         96
Shadida                  16923    35.89 %          26        6166        2533        8198           0          0
Tigerwoods               11816    25.06 %        4461           0           0        7167           0        188
Total                    47154   100.00 %       12081        6166        3345       25278           0        284

PDIF is a hell of a drug.

Counting double proc rate now...

Keep in mind I only had haste 70% of the time as well. ()

[Tricen]

When I played FFXI, I felt like I had to apologize if haste was off for more than 10 seconds :/

[Neosutra]

When I played FFXI, I felt like I had to apologize if haste was off for more than 10 seconds :/

I got married so I could always have haste via my own personal Rdm. And even though I know she knows her job, I still say "need haste" the millisecond it wears off.. Because it fucking overwrites, so it should never wear off!!!!!

[Thorny]

lolparse


inb4 nerf SAM

See, this is why parses are worthless. You're getting a much closer result in the latest parse because vegetto is a good DD and engages quickly, though you still have other factors. Who gives a shit if you can outparse a half-afk apoc, so can 6 of my jobs.

If you want to know what's better, do math on it. No matter how many parses you do there'll always be external factors you can't entirely rule out.

[Cream Soda]

As far as the people who always say "But math can't predict everything that'd happen in a real parse" I look at it this way.

The math shows your max potential. The better the player you are, the closer you come to reaching that peak potential.

[shepardG]

Ill give it to veg', he knows how to stab shit!

[Thorny]

As far as the people who always say "But math can't predict everything that'd happen in a real parse" I look at it this way.

The math shows your max potential. The better the player you are, the closer you come to reaching that peak potential.

Wise words.

Where the math becomes most relevant is when someone decides they're going to level(or use an already leveled) one of X jobs, say, a career mage doing their first melee. If their goal is to do the most damage, they're going to do it by leveling the job that does the most damage with gear available to them. Human error effects some jobs differently(WSing slowly will hurt a SAM more than a MNK), but not by enough to change what will do the most damage.

[pchan]

I've done tests on genbu's shield on chigoes outside Nashmau

proc rate : ~ 41%
absorb percent ~ 37%, not counting the -10% pdt on it, so ~ 1-(1-0.37)(1-0.9)

With those values, if you got x pdt on your gear outside genbu, and get it by 1 the resulting damage is :

(1-0.41)*(1-x-0.10)+0.41*(1-0.37)*(1-x-0.10)

For instance with 27% pdt and genbu the resulting damage is 0.534 or -46.6% pdt
With earth staff instead this would be -47% obviously

Now with soulsaber -5% pdt you have 42% pdt instead so the resulting damage with genbu is 0.492 while earth staff would put it at 0.53.

So genbu+soulsabe is equivalent to ~-24% pdt and beats earth staff, ding.

[Thorny]

Good thing RDM shield blocks things it's tanking as well as EP chigoes.

I'll acknowledge that it's an interesting idea and very well might be the best option, but you can't assume proc rate is the same on everything, especially with 200 skill and PLD as a precedent.

[Kirschy]

As far as the people who always say "But math can't predict everything that'd happen in a real parse" I look at it this way.

The math shows your max potential. The better the player you are, the closer you come to reaching that peak potential.

gonna agree /w this~ The math/modeling we do is for potential. Everyone plays differently though.

[pchan]

Good thing RDM shield blocks things it's tanking as well as EP chigoes.

I'll acknowledge that it's an interesting idea and very well might be the best option, but you can't assume proc rate is the same on everything, especially with 200 skill and PLD as a precedent.

With only 20% proc rate i have the combo shield+sword on par with earth staff, it's got a huge margin. Secondly the 24 defense on genbu's is something I didn't include in the comparison, and no reason to neglect it (I neglected the vit since the sword has VIT too).

[Kirschy]

With only 20% proc rate i have the combo shield+sword on par with earth staff, it's got a huge margin. Secondly the 24 defense on genbu's is something I didn't include in the comparison, and no reason to neglect it (I neglected the vit since the sword has VIT too).

I know next to nothing about RDM solo, but isn't the consistent damage reduction from Staff better than the chance reduction from shield+sword. I understand that overall the shield/sword combo will have better damage mitigation, but I was under the impression that RDM solo was easier /w reliable damage mitigation instead of chance damage mitigation?