Final Form Magian Weapons

[mdkuser]

Yes it does.

The most of an increase you can get from 2% haste is
2/20 = 10% and that's at 78% haste.

So let's look at non zergs,
Hasso 25% haste in gear, double march, haste = 70% haste.

2/30 = 6.67% increase

10% DA adds to DoT, WS frequency, AND direct WS dmg.

Let's assume you have pole grip and brutal.

117/107 = 9.3% increase.

nope because 10% da does not increase your DA rate by 10%. If OAT is 40% then your DA rate with /drg is

0.05+0.95*0.4=43%

your DA rate with /war is

0.15+0.85*0.4=49%

1.49/1.43=+4% increase, always less than 2% haste from /drg.

[Cream Soda]

nope because 10% da does not increase your DA rate by 10%. If OAT is 40% then your DA rate with /drg is

0.05+0.95*0.4=43%

your DA rate with /war is

0.15+0.85*0.4=49%

1.49/1.46=+2% increase, always less than 2% haste from /drg.

I clicked on random question thread whats better and this at the same time. I went by the quoted post, and assumed hagun, since kuro wasn't mentioned, lol. My math was correct for what I did it for, just in the wrong thread.

[mdkuser]

np lol i think everyone was aggreeing but reading wrong.

[ringthree]

false info again. the maths has been done on previous pages: soboro is always better than hagun( typically 2% on average pDIF situations, more in low pDIF) and always inferior to kurodachi. If you think 4% is a side grade for one equipement slot, you might as well keep an onimaru, because hagun is only 2% better. I dont care if people want to keep their haguns but the maths don't lie.

Edit: the maths is not as simple as you make it, as you have to factor in haste, double attacks, and the sub job... as /war, hagun=soboro and kurodachi is +4%; with /drg soboro=+2% and kurodachi=+7% ( /war best for hagun once you have dusk+1 and speed belt).

By my math, Soboro is so far behind Hagun and Radonnotachi that I have to wonder where you are getting your numbers. Are you still working with the even distribution for 1, 2 and 3 swings for Soboro (that still doesn't put Soboro over, btw)? Already posted my math in the What's Better? thread.

Honestly, anyone that wants to believe pchan and mdkuser at this point is just doing it on faith and fuzzy percentage based math. I know I will just be insulted for making the claim that they are wrong, but if you do the full math, not just randomly assign numbers based on made up claims of comparable swings or melee/WS splits you will see that this Soboro discussion is just troll food.

The real discussion should be about whether Radonnotachi or Hagun is better. Anyone that even mentioned Soboro in this group hasn't done the real math behind the calculations.

[Tsuko_Asura]

The math was done far before whatever you got out of Mdk and Pchan. And quite frankly, I don't see why anyone should consider the math of someone who thinks target defense has any barring on whether or not Kurodachi is better than Soboro.

[ringthree]

The math was done far before whatever you got out of Mdk and Pchan. And quite frankly, I don't see why anyone should consider the math of someone who thinks target defense has any barring on whether or not Kurodachi is better than Soboro.

Actually, I never said anything about Kurodachi, but you were right, I was mistaken on pDIF for Soboro. It doesn't change the math at all though. The "math" that has been done by pchan and mdkuser were guesses based on percentage splits, not the real formulas in the game. Even in my very generous scenarios Soboro doesn't come close.

I kind of think it is funny that pchan and mdkuser (and you too I guess) accuse others of having an "agenda" to make Hagun come out on top, when the real situation is that pchan and mdkuser have been trying for years to make anything and everything break the conventional wisdom of everything in the game.

And to follow up on something that Failure has pointed out before, if you are correct, then show the parses that prove your math in the "real world". You can make up whatever math you want and plug in whatever values you want, but in the end if you math doesn't match the "real world" then you are still wrong.

My next goal is to try to figure out how Kurodachi, but honestly, I don't think posting on BG is even helpful anymore, because there is just a chorus of people parroting pchan at this point, people that haven't done the math, and just uses guesses to prove they are correct, and scream when anyone else does the real math to prove them wrong. Everyone's math is going to involve different models and estimates to try to make up for unknowns. Slight variations are inevitable, and that can be debated civilly. But that won't ever be the case when those two are still around.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Like I said, the math was done before whatever you got out of those two.

And there's plenty for people to learn from BG, from people who have proven time and time again to be able to accurate answer questions involving the intricacies of this game's damage formulas- you're not one of them. Want to be one? Stop arguing with the opinions of people who, while having the capacity to be correct about numerous things, have a reputation being wrong a fair portion of the time. Byr and Thorny came up with the established order of GKT, and they're the ones you need to prove wrong if you want anyone to take you seriously.

[ringthree]

Like I said, the math was done before whatever you got out of those two.

/shrug Use the Soboro, I don't care. It's not worth the discussion anymore.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Yeah, because acting like a two-year-old is going to make your argument all the move compelling.

[Not Kuno]

Does pet magic count for trial? Like Meteorite for the 50+ dmg trial on light staff etc.

[Xavier]

Oh the irony.

[ringthree]

Does pet magic count for trial? Like Meteorite for the 50+ dmg trial on light staff etc.

Almost positive it does, I heard someone talking about it over vent the other day.

[Not Kuno]

Yeah I tested it works.

[pchan]

The "math" that has been done by pchan and mdkuser were guesses based on percentage splits, not the real formulas in the game.

I don't guess percentage split, I calculate them. I calculate TP overflow, ws/tp split. Mob's stats are known, players' attacks are known. Everything comes from game mechanics. I don't need to guess anything. You have to.

My next goal is to try to figure out how Kurodachi, but honestly, I don't think posting on BG is even helpful anymore, because there is just a chorus of people parroting pchan at this point, people that haven't done the math, and just uses guesses to prove they are correct, and scream when anyone else does the real math to prove them wrong. Everyone's math is going to involve different models and estimates to try to make up for unknowns. Slight variations are inevitable, and that can be debated civilly. But that won't ever be the case when those two are still around.

You are just as bad as failure.

[homerun]

My next goal is to try to figure out how Kurodachi, but honestly, I don't think posting on BG is even helpful anymore, because there is just a chorus of people parroting pchan at this point, people that haven't done the math, and just uses guesses to prove they are correct, and scream when anyone else does the real math to prove them wrong.

You have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

Let me repeat that because you don't seem to understand.

YOU HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!

It's like it is fucking 2005 all over again in here.

holy lol

[Gwynplaine]

It looks like SE has confirmed that these initial weapon trials will be continued in the next update:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/De...of_the_Magians

Q:Will players eventually be able to modify all of their armor and weapons via trials? If so, when can we expect those changes to be implemented into the system, and what kind of restrictions will there be?


A:While system and game balance concerns make it unrealistic to allow all existing equipment to be augmented through Trial of the Magians, we intend to expand the system in such a way that players' most precious acquisitions can stay fit for active use long after the level cap has been increased.

Q:The plans announced at VanaFest 2010 are just the tip of the iceberg, so stay tuned!

A:New trials that pick up where the existing ones left off will be introduced in the next version update, with a sneak peek forthcoming on Topics in the coming weeks.

Further additions and refinements are also in the works for future updates. We are constantly striving to incorporate user feedback, and can assure that you won't be disappointed with the results!

That could imply that these current weapons will eventually be enhanced further and gain their own unique name that could make them useful to macro.

[Malacite]

Please let Kurodachi evolve into 2-3 or even 2-4...

anything to curb stomp Hagun's bullshit dominance. Sorry, I just have it out for that thing for my own reasons >_>

Can't wait to see how much more bad ass the relics & mythics will become either. I have a sneaking suspicion that they won't allow them to multi-hit. At least not until the very end and even then likely only an OAT, not 3-4 because that would be downright silly with weapons like Apocalypse.

[Khelek]

Please let Kurodachi evolve into 2-3 or even 2-4...

anything to curb stomp Hagun's bullshit dominance. Sorry, I just have it out for that thing for my own reasons >_>

Can't wait to see how much more bad ass the relics & mythics will become either. I have a sneaking suspicion that they won't allow them to multi-hit. At least not until the very end and even then likely only an OAT, not 3-4 because that would be downright silly with weapons like Apocalypse.

God forbid that relics vastly outperform normal top-end weapons.

[TybudX]

It makes more sense that the weaker variations of the OAT weapons become 2-3 or 2-4 further down the line.

[Gwynplaine]

In regard to their first answer, it seems like maybe they're talking about the amount of stuff you can put onto a wep or armor. I can't remember what the limit was, they had spoken about it once before. It was something like I think 4 lines of stuff? Like 1 for any stats, then 3 for any unique stats or latents etc.