Final Form Magian Weapons

[Khajit]

Magians just glitched on me. Im doing dakini30 and peeler 16 in ulegrand. weather wore off but im still getting points for rabbits. I hope this glitch never wears.
The glitch wore when the day changed so it probably has something to do with the dakini.

[Tsuko_Asura]

oat bow is worth it imo. tp gain is super fast and ws frequency is crazy... that is if you don't pull hate and die from it all.

i like it, but not sure if anyone else has completed it.

I'd still go with gun. Higher effective DPS/TP gain, and easier to make a 5-hit while /WAR or /DRG.

[Talli]

Just wondering how good the OAT bow is (DMG+23 Delay+88 OAT, Total is 62 DMG 600 Delay OAT)

sorry if its been said, but ive been collecting krab shells, wondering if its worth doing

iv been thinking of doing this but not sure, done the DMG:80 bow already but have been looking for stats for the OaT - DMG:10 - V/Ebow but can find none

[nitsuj]

Finally...



Before anyone asks why I made this one instead of Garuda staff, the possible new BPs in the future may make Garuda not as great. Fenrir will remain cheap and the best meleer in general. Should work on Cure staff in the near future as the next one.

No way, if I did a staff I'd do the same one man, nice work. People underestimate the power of fenrir. If you do anything outside of the usual Cast>BP>Release method, then Fenrir is the way to go.

Not to mention coupling that staff with a 317+ Summoning magic build, and you're in real good shape for an Avatar's Favor build

[Not Kuno]

If I did a smn weapon it would definitely be that one. Sadly I got too many BLM staves to do first. Finished thunder now ice. orz

[pooter01]

Just since nobody mentioned it here yet...

OAT Hand to hand works on footwork rounds.

Just fyi.

[Soupbowl]

Thats interesting

[Khajit]

The glitch just happened again( i know it was a glitch because other people on peeler didn't get points the first go round) so it's more than likely having an npc out at ANY time during the magians trial until the game day changes since the effect doesnt wear off when the npc does.

[Priran]

Thats interesting

Do I really have to explain why it isn't?

[Onorgul]

Do I really have to explain why it isn't?

Oh, do please. I was mulling over the potentials, but, like most people on BG, can't be arsed to do the real work and was waiting for some smartass to do it for me.

[Priran]

Requires Dune Boots to be equipped to even be near the DMG/Delay of a bad GKT; without Dune Boots and with this weapon it's even worse than the OAT GKT
Dragon Kick is shit compared to any worthwhile 2H WS
No Hasso or Seigan
No 2-hander gear selection
No 2-hander DEX:Acc or STR:Att ratio

[Onorgul]

Well, Kyoshu Kyahan are Damage +25 to kicks and give 20 Accuracy and 20 Attack while under the effect of Footwork. That's 5 less +Damage than Dune Boots, but in exchange for a boost to Accuracy and Attack that is actually pretty close to what two-handed weapon users have, especially since Footwork natively boosts Attack by ~10%. Doesn't Footwork also increase the base damage of Kicks above and beyond the value of your H2H skill and equipped boots? I'm not 100% sure on that.

I won't argue that Dragon Kick is anywhere near Tachi: Stupidly-strong, but it's not a complete pushover of a weaponskill, either. I prefer Howling Fist as it seems to have a better hidden pDIF boost, though, so I certainly see your point on that.

Let's suppose that we're talking about a longer fight and you just need a generic DD rather than a tank-type. Unless AoE and support are a problem, it should be feasible for a DD to come as /Dragoon and use High Jump as a more effective enmity dump than any other option, certainly moreso than the minor loss when Utsusemi shadows are consumed. That'd allow a build something like this:

Wargfangs | - | - | Black Tathlum
Usukane Somen | Tiercel Necklace | Brutal Earring | Wyvern Earring
Mirke Fauxbergeon | Bandomusha Kote | Rajas Ring | Toreador's Ring
Forager's Mantle | Black Belt | Byakko's Haidate | Kyoshu Kyahan

That'd give:
Occasionally attacks twice
Attack +10%
STR +22
Attack +82 (+92 accounting for /Dragoon)
DEX +26
Accuracy +61 (+71 accounting for /Dragoon)
Store TP +6
Haste +26%
Double Attack +5%

Dunno, doesn't look like something that should be dismissed out-of-hand. Assuming I'm wrong about a boost to base Damage from Footwork, it's D60 with Kyoshu or D65 with Dune Boots, right? That's not far behind Kurodachi, though admittedly without Samurai's native Store TP. I haven't mathed it nor decided on an arbitrary target, but there are plenty of things that can be adjusted (Tiercel Necklace and Bandomusha Kote can be swapped if Accuracy is still needed after food). For Greater Colibri, I know someone can math it, but I don't know that I could force myself to endure Magian trials just for those things again.

[Priran]

Against greater colibri, no SAM is going to use a GKT while Footwork is still blunt so you can pretty much dismiss that out-of-hand as a loss for MNK. I don't think MNK could 6-hit with Footwork, either. No Rose (or any other) Strap doesn't help and subbing SAM for Store TP, Meditate, and Third Eye just sounds like it can't be good for damage or survivability.

Footwork adds 18 DMG and 180 Delay, according to wiki.

[Byrthnoth]

480 delay, 13 base TP, D78 with essentially perma-Berserk and a 40%+ DA rate. In Footwork, Kick Attacks count as DA and DA counts as DA, combine that with Wargs and I'm really not sure how it adds. Assuming they're all separate and exclusive, you're looking at a 51.5% DA rate.
Now, you'd need 29 STP to get a 6-hit, which isn't possible unless you're /SAM (then you'd use Usu body-6, Rajas-5, Brutal-1, White Tathlum-2).
However, a 7-hit is pretty simple (10 STP), and Footwork's description says that you get full TP for the first two hits of your WS (26 without STP). Usu body, Brutal, Rajas, you have 12

I see the /DRG TP gear being:
Wargfangs | - | - | Black Tathlum
Usukane Somen | Tiercel Necklace | Brutal Earring | Wyvern Earring
Usukane Haramaki | Bandomusha Kote | Rajas Ring | Toreador's Ring
Forager's Mantle | Black Belt | Byakko's Haidate | Kyoshu Kyahan
26% Haste, 6-hit, 480 Delay

I see the /SAM TP gear being:
Wargfangs | - | - | White Tathlum
Walahra Turban | Tiercel Necklace | Brutal Earring | Ethereal Earring
Usukane Haramaki | Bandomusha Kote | Rajas Ring | Toreador's Ring
Forager's Mantle | Black Belt | Byakko's Haidate | Kyoshu Kyahan
23% Haste, 5-hit, 480 Delay

Kurodachi /DRG would be:
Kurodachi / Sword Strap / --- / Black Tathlum
Usukane Somen/Justice torque/Wyvern Earring/Brutal Earring
Haubergeon +1/Dusk Gloves +1/Rajas Ring/Toreador's Ring
Forager's Mantle/Velocious Belt/Byakko's Haidate/Usukane Sune-ate
25% Haste, 450 Delay, D68, 6-hit, 40% DA rate.


Has anyone checked if Seigan works with Footwork on?

[pooter01]

Against greater colibri, no SAM is going to use a GKT while Footwork is still blunt so you can pretty much dismiss that out-of-hand as a loss for MNK. I don't think MNK could 6-hit with Footwork, either. No Rose (or any other) Strap doesn't help and subbing SAM for Store TP, Meditate, and Third Eye just sounds like it can't be good for damage or survivability.

Footwork adds 18 DMG and 180 Delay, according to wiki.

First, the game doesn't revolve around pink birds. Second, try learning about the job, and the job ability before you start throwing random "facts" around.

Footwork sets delay at 480 regardless of main weapon, and adds 10% atk bonus before food. also adds 18 dmg, plus base h2h, plus kick shoes. which with KK's, is 78 dmg. at 480 delay, a 7hit is only a few Stp peices away, 6hit with /sam and a few peices, and 5hit with /sam, sam roll, and gear possible(but not consistant).

The real power in footwork is the fact that both of the first two swings of each WS produces full tp(13 before store tp, 26 total for DK. 32 for asuran fist). so that 7hit, is 5 swings to WS(same as a 6hit). and a 6hit, is 4 swings between WS. More power comes from the fact that Jumps are a free regular melee attack(2+punches), except once again each swing returns 13(base) TP, for 26+ tp each jump.

As a comparison to a standerd monk, Wargfangs + footwork is anywhere from about tied, to about 10% ahead. (math was done on alla mnk forums).

Wargfangs working with footwork was great news for anyone who actually plays mnk, considering how we got shafted on broken mechanics on most trial weapons.

[Motenten]

Some generalizations:

If you're hitting accuracy cap while using Destroyers (particularly when using 5/5 Usu) without using sushi (I'm less certain when dealing with pizza) then Destroyers will tend to do better. If the extra attack gained from Footwork (both the JA and KKs) pushes you high enough to avoid the need for Boost on weaponskills (which is pretty likely if you're getting any standard attack buff + meat), you gain back most of that loss (~5% worth).

If you're notably below the accuracy cap (eg: less than 90% with Focus down, and able to swap gear to not waste Focus) then Wargs + KKs + Footwork should tend to do significantly better than Destroyers.

The range on the above for the sets I've done the math on so far is anywhere from Footwork being 10% better to Destroyers being 7% better, without counting the additional gain from not needing Boost. If you can remove the Boost delay, it moves to something like a range of Footwork being 15% better to Destroyers being 2% better.

Aside: non-magian'd Spharai are about 10% better than Destroyers.

This is assuming a basic mnk/nin setup. The high damage Wargs allow you to get a fake 6-hit using Asuran if you sub /sam for a fairly decent gain in damage output (also doable with just DK, but requires more particular gear). /war is probably about the worst sub to use with the Warg+Footwork config (it's not much of a stretch for /thf to be better than /war). /drg is probably the strongest sub option for pure damage.

[Narol]

I'm horrendously lazy, so would the low-damage Wargs be useful in any fashion for a Footwork setup? Or is just using Dragon Kick not going to beat Destroyers?

[Motenten]

If your average DK is within ~15% of your average Asuran, and you can get a 7-hit build, then the Warg(0)+Footwork setup has the potential to outdo Destroyers. Whether that's feasible depends on the mob and what other gear may need to change.

[Priran]

blah blah blah some crap you assume I don't know

As a comparison to a standerd monk, Wargfangs + footwork is anywhere from about tied, to about 10% ahead. (math was done on alla mnk forums).

I'm reading this and he tested destroyers and footwork for 5 minutes each, against greater colibri (aka pink birds, you hypocrite). I shouldn't even need to explain why this is a shitty meaningless test.

[Motenten]

The test against colibri was only important insofar as it verified that the OAT proc'd on Footwork. It's not what's being used to compare the configurations.

The math was run against greater colibri because the weaker the mob, the stronger standard H2H is relative to Footwork. If it can be shown that Warg/Footwork is as good as or better than standard H2H on colibri, it follows that it should be even further ahead against more difficult mobs.

I'll try running numbers against Battleclad Chariot later, since I've been doing a bit of comparitive analysis work on that recently anyway.