Abyssea HNMs

[Cairthenn]

Not to go back to clearly unimportant issues, but I'm pretty sure AV actually cannot (could not, rather) cast over the wall. The fact that he would literally lose hate instantaneously is what "locked" him. </endabsolutevirtuetopic>

Anyone found any validity to the "T2s being dead = shadow" theory?

[Snprphnx]

I see a fence in E.Ron [S], it's there. Why would SE have put it there if they didn't intend on me using it.

don't forget, this was people excuse/reasoning in the salvage dupe. SE botched the programming and people discovered and used it to their advantage. we all know what happened in that situation

[Chojja]

Not to go back to clearly unimportant issues, but I'm pretty sure AV actually cannot (could not, rather) cast over the wall. The fact that he would literally lose hate instantaneously is what "locked" him. </endabsolutevirtuetopic>

Anyone found any validity to the "T2s being dead = shadow" theory?

Certainly not the case, Ive popped Crab immediately after killing the last T2 and getting blue abyssite and it popped without a shadow.

[Nitecon]

There is nothing new here. All these problems are SE's own creation.

How many times are we going to say "should have coded the game better/tested it out properly"

They will never clarify any of these following points:

- Is terrain for aesthetic purposes only?
- If so, why design zones i.e. Temenos especially, where you can position on ramps to avoid Astral Flow?
- Why are some things banded as player base ingenuity (ninja tanking) yet other things are exploits, yet it is stuff they have put into the game.

We can go on and on finding examples of these cases for and against kiting/pinning, and any other "grey" area activities in the game.

They do not communicate with the playerbase at all, on a community level or at a developer level.

When something is done by the playerbase which they frown upon, they throw the ban hammer without any discussions/consultation or official global notification/warning that certain things are not what they intended and players could be liable for suspension if they carry out these actions/continue to do so.

Don't even get me started on letting GMs interpret whatever rules have been set in place. These amazing rules which the playerbase have never been given, so there is no clue as to what is truly right/wrong in the eyes of SE.

As people have already discussed, it's a lottery based on what GM you get. This should not be, there is no consistency, 2010 and SE still has not learnt.

They spew out all this rubbish about community this community that, what community? The community is the playerbase, there is no SE involvement in this community, otherwise none of these arguments will be occuring.

SE just sit back in their ivory tower. Always have, always will.

Until they actually decide to officially clarify on a lot of issues this game still has, as to what is right/wrong, we can all continue to bitch about kite vs pinning, and whatever else people see as right/wrong.

I guess in a way, it's always good (in terms of SE) to keep the ambiguity, so they can always have the final say. Great philosophy.

[Krispy]

Played around with Yilbegan few days ago. Dodging the Dancing Tails were a big help, but keeping hate against 4 RNGs with full buffs ( cor & brd ) seemed to be tricky sub war. Also had a WAR putting the effect from Full Break on it full-time seemed to help the damage a lot. We also got unlucky from our Yilbegan. It casted Dark Star about 6-8 times and got hit with Meteor 2-3 times and wiped @ 20% >.< Going to try /NIN spamming Atonement for a little better hate gain granted it only does 2xx-3xx dmg. I'm guessing the whole Meteor cast & Dark Star is completely random? Anyways going to pop a couple of more this week and do some more testing with different things.

[Julian]

Personally, I think there's a pretty big difference between using the terrain to your adventage and abusing that fence, and any other places that mimic the effect.

To anyone saying otherwise, have you actually seen this? The mob is right next to you, and you suddenly move a few steps, and it decides to go all the way around even though it's already right next to you. Hell, the mob can be HITTING you, and if you move, it will stop to go around, that's incredibly freaking broken, lol.

[Nitecon]

Let's play devils advocate.

What if you let it hit you once, then step back, so it has to go all the way around the fence to hit you again?

At what point is it abuse?

Pinning so it never hits you?

Pinning so it hits you once in a while?

etc etc etc

Only clarification from SE will resolve the issue. By clarification I mean an official statement, not just a series of bans.

Then again SE loves their draconian ways.

Is bouncing a mob between 2 players abuse?

If you're really good you can bounce a mob so that it never touches either player. What then? Abuse?

[Weeks]

What game have you guys been playing that you're all convinced of Square's draconian ways? They have an apparent unofficial policy of ignoring Windower use and they've been almost entirely hands-off in an endgame scene utterly rife with cheating for the past five years. They even chose for years to enforce an absolutely unreasonable burden of proof before taking any action against RMT.

They've decided to enforce their ToS basically twice since FFXI's NA release, and one of those hit a whopping 400 players.

[Xera]

To anyone saying otherwise, have you actually seen this? The mob is right next to you, and you suddenly move a few steps, and it decides to go all the way around even though it's already right next to you. Hell, the mob can be HITTING you, and if you move, it will stop to go around, that's incredibly freaking broken, lol.

I'd say the two things, pinning and a mob being unable to pass X point as something completely different concept.

[Nitecon]

What game have you guys been playing that you're all convinced of Square's draconian ways?

It's 2010 and they still refuse to have any direct contact with the community on development/gameplay issues. Is this how it is for any other major games developer?

That's what I meant by draconian, it's the systems the employ, and how they handle things/don't handle things.

[pendragoon]

don't forget, this was people excuse/reasoning in the salvage dupe. SE botched the programming and people discovered and used it to their advantage. we all know what happened in that situation

Sorry, out of context a little and I should have quoted what I was responding to. That statement was more about the intentions of SE, not a rationalization of why it's ok to use the fence.

Stating that SE put a longer charge time on Throat Stab specifically so people could run away from it doesn't seem like the logical reason. Or anything more logical than concluding that the fence/pathing design was for us to mess with a mobs pathing.

As mentioned a few times previously, I think it's just a GM lotto. And in most cases, the easiest and quickest way for them to resolve the dispute is to get rid of one of the sources of the problem. If the person calling the GM can reasonably convince the GM that the other person is breaking/bending the rules, then it's easiest to take out the accused.

I can see some jailing or even individual bans, I wouldn't expect a mass banning (as I think they would have a hard time figuring out who was using such tactics), but I can't be surprised either way.

[Thorny]

Why give single target tp moves a range at all if you aren't supposed to be able to outrun them? They could all be 25'+ like zephyr arrow.

[Asmoranomar]

Why give single target tp moves a range at all if you aren't supposed to be able to outrun them? They could all be 25'+ like zephyr arrow.

Krab readies ban-shot.

[Byphareast]

Played around with Yilbegan few days ago. Dodging the Dancing Tails were a big help, but keeping hate against 4 RNGs with full buffs ( cor & brd ) seemed to be tricky sub war. Also had a WAR putting the effect from Full Break on it full-time seemed to help the damage a lot. We also got unlucky from our Yilbegan. It casted Dark Star about 6-8 times and got hit with Meteor 2-3 times and wiped @ 20% >.< Going to try /NIN spamming Atonement for a little better hate gain granted it only does 2xx-3xx dmg. I'm guessing the whole Meteor cast & Dark Star is completely random? Anyways going to pop a couple of more this week and do some more testing with different things.

Never thought of using Full Break ... can you ask your DDs if they remember what percentage increase they saw when FB effects were on?

Also, I recommend adding a few BLU/THFs or SAM/THFs since even Relic wielding RNGs can cap on hate in a prolonged fight.

As for Dark Star and Meteor, I have found Magus Roll to help a bit. We set up our tank pt as : PLD, WHM, RDM, BRD, COR
We keep the last spot open if we need THFs to steal enmity or pt swap a BRD for 2 more songs.

[Krispy]

Never thought of using Full Break ... can you ask your DDs if they remember what percentage increase they saw when FB effects were on?

Also, I recommend adding a few BLU/THFs or SAM/THFs since even Relic wielding RNGs can cap on hate in a prolonged fight.

As for Dark Star and Meteor, I have found Magus Roll to help a bit. We set up our tank pt as : PLD, WHM, RDM, BRD, COR
We keep the last spot open if we need THFs to steal enmity or pt swap a BRD for 2 more songs.

I can't really give your #s since we didn't parse it, but it seemed to help significantly. Saw our DRG do about 11xx Wheeling Thrust. Also hate keep getting ripped off of me really quickly from the rangers which usually don't happen. From 100-2x% it took only 25-30min with Full Break on and RNGx4 DRG/SAM WAR/SAM as DD. Next time we play with it I will parse & have a damage chart for you. Going to try /NIN with Atonement as well. Since I can dodge Dancing Tail 90% of the time blocking the normal hits with shadows should reduce my enmity loss by a lot. Anyways I'll keep you updated. Also the one that spammed the Dark Star & Meteor was popped in East Ronfaure [S] if that matters to anyone.

[Leolai]

I can't really give your #s since we didn't parse it, but it seemed to help significantly. Saw our DRG do about 11xx Wheeling Thrust. Also hate keep getting ripped off of me really quickly from the rangers which usually don't happen. From 100-2x% it took only 25-30min with Full Break on and RNGx4 DRG/SAM WAR/SAM as DD. Next time we play with it I will parse & have a damage chart for you. Going to try /NIN with Atonement as well. Since I can dodge Dancing Tail 90% of the time blocking the normal hits with shadows should reduce my enmity loss by a lot. Anyways I'll keep you updated. Also the one that spammed the Dark Star & Meteor was popped in East Ronfaure [S] if that matters to anyone.

If you have problems with rangers pulling hate, they're doing it wrong really. Ask them to invest in -enmity sets and /drg. This shouldn't be underestimated, had a rough fight once where some rangers got killed by dark star and I was the only one left standing, I did 22k damage in 23 minutes and never pulled hate doing it.

Our fights where we have had the luck of having a full rng party has lasted about 10 minutes each, however if you're rngs don't know how to handle enmity it will take longer.

Dodging tancing tail is the way to go tanking, however it's fun on rng to fire a barrage when he performs it, so he'll do it back to back and the tank will have to eat the second

[Byphareast]

If you have problems with rangers pulling hate, they're doing it wrong really. Ask them to invest in -enmity sets and /drg. This shouldn't be underestimated, had a rough fight once where some rangers got killed by dark star and I was the only one left standing, I did 22k damage in 23 minutes and never pulled hate doing it.

Dodging tancing tail is the way to go tanking, however it's fun on rng to fire a barrage when he performs it, so he'll do it back to back and the tank will have to eat the second

These are some good tips. If you don't have relic weapons, I highly recommend /drg, -enmity setup, and a 4-5 hit build. Start with mekki-shakki, cobra body, skadi legs, mix in some racc gear, and finally some -enmity gear.

[cdgreg]

Or try the opposite approach and slow down. Yilb really shouldn't kill your tank so the issue obviously lies with him spamming shit and hate being a mess. Focus first on pinning him to your tank by having blu Sam or wars subbing thf and tpin off nearby mobs. Once you know you have the right setup to keep hate pinned on tank it's a snoozefesr until it's dead. At this point put in some extra dmg like rng or blms who only nuke when wings are up almost forcing them to control emnity.

Don't try to be a hero and wtfpwn the dragon with massive amounts of dd until you know you can kill it slow paced first would be my recommendation.

[jmc]

Or try the opposite approach and slow down. Yilb really shouldn't kill your tank so the issue obviously lies with him spamming shit and hate being a mess. Focus first on pinning him to your tank by having blu Sam or wars subbing thf and tpin off nearby mobs. Once you know you have the right setup to keep hate pinned on tank it's a snoozefesr until it's dead. At this point put in some extra dmg like rng or blms who only nuke when wings are up almost forcing them to control emnity.

Don't try to be a hero and wtfpwn the dragon with massive amounts of dd until you know you can kill it slow paced first would be my recommendation.

Easier said than done......... if they are like people in my shell its

"OMG NEW HNM! MUST DO EPEEN DMG RIGHT AWAY!"

Hard to stop (some) people from trying that. -.-

[Krispy]

yeah apparently being a ranger gives you job trait e-peen +100.. i will try out the /drg and see how it goes~ also some onyxia style yelling at the rangers should help out! XD thanks for the tips.