Fixing SMN for PT...a pipe dream?

[zanfire]

Though its likely this has been said a lot, i really just want to see what people would do to make SMN more useful in partys and not be ghetto WHMs.

This came up after i thought "hmmm, which job should i take to 99 first?"
My 3 main jobs i like playing are BLU,DRG, and SMN. When i got to thinking about having to PT with them again it got me thinking about what it will be like doing 24 more (and obviously MUCH longer then previous lvls) of grinding.

BLU: well they don't get many PTs, the main issue being most of our damage comes from using our small MP pool (would be nice to make them a bit more party desirable too)

DRG: a now loved DD because of birdys, but even without them probly the easiest job to get PTs with. Only issue here is the lack of use for it in endgame.

SMN: We are the last resort mages and we get used as a subjob and not as actually...well SMNs. They would have a slight edge in endgame over DRG, but i wouldnt want to toss cures and occasionally do a quick buff.

After finding out our much sought after avatars where nothing more then fancy 2hrs (though i can see alex's use in some endgame situations) it was quite the appointment after 2yrs+ of teasing us and this was what we got.

Would a new pet been the answer to new use in PTs? unlikely. Now i got thinking what they could do to make SMN more of what they were supposed to be (DDs and back up heals) and what SE did to give them a new purpose, but was very poorly executed IMO (looking at you astral favor)

My idea? well first fix astral favor. For one dont have it reset the favor when we BP (never got why it did that) we are already weaking the pet, so have those AOE buffs stick. I liked the idea but some of the AOE buffs just are NOT useful in PTs (like magic evasion) I would actually love to be buffing my PT and DDing/ backup healing..would be busy and fun.

2nd) while in favor id like to see the pets cost 1 or even nothing, so we can actually spend MP on those backup heals and REDICULOUS MP costs for BPs

3) lower the MP cost on some BPs. Im an elvaan and my MP is just over 1k, so when a BP costs 130+ mp on top of sucks away 3+ mp per tick you can see how we don't last long especially if we were DDing or even constantly keeping buffs up during a PT. This like BLU is a reason why PTs are to fond of us, we can do great, but we run dry WAY too fast and PTs need turtles not hares. Gotta be in it for the long haul.

I know some of the issues end up being like "but you will be overpowered solo" and such, but if done properly i don't think it would cause much fuss.

so what ways do you think would make SMN more of a PT friendly job thats not just a /WHM?

And please, don't say "well you can just Astral Burn" lol

[Omnipotent]

Sending this in to SE RIGHT NOW. BRILLIANT IDEAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[zanfire]

Sending this in to SE RIGHT NOW. BRILLIANT IDEAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i'm just hoping this isnt sarcasm lol, i was just tossing an idea out there.

[SephYuyX]

BST needs more love than SMN, sorry.

[Jeryhn]

When the level cap hits 80, SMN will be able to cast Haste and use Afflatus. What's the problem?

[zanfire]

BST needs more love than SMN, sorry.

though i agree BST needs work, and making them a bit more PT friendly would be nice (i thought they were getting new pets this update? guess i was wrong) but they where intended for solo play. Hopefully they really did make jug pets much cheaper and BST can pop out much cooler DD pets for PTs somewhere down the line (and hence be much more considered in PTs)

[zanfire]

When the level cap hits 80, SMN will be able to cast Haste and use Afflatus. What's the problem?

Well what about from 75 til 80? and your thing is again just making SMN be a /whm or /sch (a gimp one in that case) and not a SMN in PTs.

[Jeryhn]

Korroloka Tunnel.

And why not abuse a subjob if you can?
Gee, it sure is a pain casting Erase on melees in merits, I hate having to sub WHM for merits. Why don't I send SE an email so RDM gets Erase naturally?

[zanfire]

Korroloka Tunnel.

And why not abuse a subjob if you can?
Gee, it sure is a pain casting Erase on melees in merits, I hate having to sub WHM for merits. Why don't I send SE an email so RDM gets Erase naturally?

...well first off not everyone can astral burn, like i said in my main post "don't just say "well can just astral burn" lol"

i don't know about you but i don;t get a heck of a lot of merit PTs as SMN, and again i was putting out an idea that wasnt just SMNs being /WHM as usual. All your doing here is ignoring what the whole point of this post was to say "don't whine, just be a /whm"

[Jeryhn]

There's also Campaign. Are you going to tell me that a SMN can't get decent EXP doing that?

If so, you're doing it completely wrong and should probably quit the job.

[zanfire]

There's also Campaign. Are you going to tell me that a SMN can't get decent EXP doing that?

If so, you're doing it completely wrong and should probably quit the job.

ANY job can get decent EXP this way...im talking about PTs specifically here. as much as its a nice way to get EXP it would be nice to PT and level slightly quicker.

[Yugl]

You're not getting anywhere because people are more interested in getting new pets than tying SMN to one role and excelling in it. "We want to cure". "We want our pets to DD". "We want our pets to tank". "We want our pets to do support role activities". The SMN community does not speak uniformly; hence, it will see no progress.

[zanfire]

You're not getting anywhere because people are more interested in getting new pets than tying SMN to one role and excelling in it. "We want to cure". "We want our pets to DD". "We want our pets to tank". "We want our pets to do support role activities". The SMN community does not speak uniformly; hence, it will see no progress.

unfortunately this is relatively true. I don't think anything will change, i just wanted to see what others would do, but i likely won't get any of those responses anyway, just sarcasm and people saying "just be a /whm" or "go astral burn".

Fourtunatly I'm going to be getting into 14 likely, so i will only have time for max of 1 99 if at all. DRG it is XD

[Sabishii]

You're not getting anywhere because people are more interested in getting new pets than tying SMN to one role and excelling in it. "We want to cure". "We want our pets to DD". "We want our pets to tank". "We want our pets to do support role activities". The SMN community does not speak uniformly; hence, it will see no progress.

SE should know what direction it wants THEIR job to go in. But they aren't doing much about it. They should say to themselves, "let's give SMN a role besides just astral burn, we should make them do a lot of damage and make INT increase their summons' power." for example. They're developing the game, not us. They can't just listen to what we want, they should make a decision on their own and take an active development role for jobs in their own game. So it's not "our fault for not speaking in one voice" since people will never agree on everything.

[NynJa]

3) lower the MP cost on some BPs. Im an elvaan and my MP is just over 1k, so when a BP costs 130+ mp on top of sucks away 3+ mp per tick you can see how we don't last long especially if we were DDing or even constantly keeping buffs up during a PT. This like BLU is a reason why PTs are to fond of us, we can do great, but we run dry WAY too fast and PTs need turtles not hares. Gotta be in it for the long haul.

BLM
Burst 2
287 MP
~1400 dmg (before MB or any extra buffs)
generates enmity


SMN
BP70
164 MP
~1000 dmg
hate free

[zanfire]

we all know BLMs got the shaft on PTs after TOAU, luckly BLM burns are pretty effective. I was hoping these newer mobs would bring back SC's and MBs like the old days, but i doubt it. At least SE has defined BLMs role in PTs and endgame (you blows crap up) where as SMN they still have no clue what to with it.

I know other jobs could use some help on the PT front (i even mention BLU, which has that same kind of deal aka: burns MP quick and becomes "meh") But i wanted to hear what people thought about SMN.

[Ninjiz]

BLM
Burst 2
287 MP
~1400 dmg (before MB or any extra buffs)
generates enmity


SMN
BP70
164 MP
~1000 dmg
hate free

I would love to see these mythical screne shots of 1k predator claws twice in a row and not after every 50th predator claw, on anything meaningful....

[Yugl]

SE should know what direction it wants THEIR job to go in. But they aren't doing much about it. They should say to themselves, "let's give SMN a role besides just astral burn, we should make them do a lot of damage and make INT increase their summons' power." for example. They're developing the game, not us. They can't just listen to what we want, they should make a decision on their own and take an active development role for jobs in their own game.

And then what ensues? Bitching from the community and resistance to assimilation. The main point of that post, since you missed it, is the realization that SMN is displaced. Look at the OP's post. His first suggestion directly relates to the flawed "fixes" players come up with. The other two suggests do nothing to combat the problem either. Overall, the suggestions will amount to nothing if the goal is a party seat.

So it's not "our fault for not speaking in one voice" since people will never agree on everything.

People may not agree on everything, but their interests should aggregate before they make demands. People agree that SAM/DRK/DRG/THF(Even if lolTHF)/WAR/BLM/RNG are DD. People also agree that BRD and COR are support roles. People also agree that WHM are main healers. The list continues, but the general idea is quite obvious.

[Psion]

BLM
Burst 2
287 MP
~1400 dmg (before MB or any extra buffs)
generates enmity


SMN
BP70
164 MP
~1000 dmg
hate free

PUP:
Blizzard IV
164 MP (but won't matter because automaton's don't have MP issues and can keep going forever done right)
~1400-2000+ damage depending on monster, merits, gear, buffs, and attachments. Generally matches or outperforms AMII from blm.
Not hate free, but can shed hate from auto once a minute nigh instantly, making hate a near moot point in almost every situation.
Can swap to physical pet that treats the toughest monsters like a bigger and uglier Even match mob.

lolblm

[Kairos]

I don't think AMII is comparable to lvl70 pacts. It's like apples and oranges because it's a different damage type and calculated completely differently. If you're going to compare AMII to anything smn has, it should be merit pacts, which generally go 1000-1200. But like previous poster said, if i was going for numbers i would have just gone pup anyway. lol.



I could care less about smn being party friendly, because there are several jobs now that are really not. Smn used to be fine in a party back when blms were golden in parties, but times have changed. Blms do manaburns for their exp, and yes i'm going to say it, summoners can do summoner burns. SE doesn't even care how people exp anymore as long as every job has a viable way to get exp, and that's taken care of. What they are focusing on now is increasing the utility of all jobs in end game so that they can introduce more strategy heavy battles.


From the descriptions you gave of your 3 jobs, if you feel smn is a last resort mage used for subjob it's one of three things;

1. You're not playing it well
2. Playing with people who don't know anything about the job to begin with
3. Have an LS leader who just hates summoner for discrimination's sake. (experienced this)

2nd) while in favor id like to see the pets cost 1 or even nothing, so we can actually spend MP on those backup heals and REDICULOUS MP costs for BPs

The cost usually with favor is 1 or 0. If it's not then the summoner is not using a perpetuation build. Gear acquisition issue.