Old League of Legends Thread

**Zanz L. Barre The 3rd** · 2011-07-12 15:27

Yeah I noticed last night when I checked champion select (previously I had gone to the store)

**tonyg** · 2011-07-12 16:10

Holy crap Soraka is so awesome, went 7/2/18 and something like 5/1/20 in my first 2 games with her. Epic moment of the day : some BR says it was 5v4 (it was 4v4) because I counted as 2 as a healer -.-

**Meian** · 2011-07-12 19:14

Stuff on stealth remake:

http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...1#post11317491

Spoiler: show

Hm. Okay, well, I suppose it's been a while since I've given an update so I'll chime in on this a little:

Following up from last time, the general problem(s) with long term stealth was:

1. There was no way for the opponents to get an inkling of how clever the stealth player was being, and thus there was no good way to get a sense of how that player operates.
2. Stealth is claustrophobic in the way that it makes you play.
3. Stealth gives very powerful scouting information while simultaneously hiding that information from your opponent.

We tried some iterations past the first few tests, with Paranoia, alternate resource bars, footprints, phasing and mark systems but in the end, we settled on the current system because it was the simplest solution for long-term stealth. In short: "Everyone has reduced Oracles, but Evelynn and Twitch are perma-stealthed."

Some Partial Stealth Details

Disclaimer: I fully understand this destroys a *lot* of the current stealth gameplay changes. Unfortunately, through lots of iteration, I was unable to capture the feeling of pure invisibility while in stealth while having fun gameplay. In the end, I decided to opt for a very simple system that was highly understandable over some more fiddling mechanics.

1. Evelynn and Twitch are permanently stealthed when they rank their level one stealth abilities. However, Evelynn and Twitch can be seen when they are within X units of an enemy champion (Slightly under vision range), or when they are within a true sight radius.

If they attack, they are revealed briefly for 2 seconds before going back into stealth.

This 'X' is being adjusted for feel between the two champions. 'X' is smaller than champion vision radius, so you can "stalk" an opposing champion, but it will be farther away.

2. Evelynn and Twitch have a "sight gem" above opponent's, telling them when the enemy can see them or not and whether they are "safe" (green sight gem), "warning - you are close to being seen, but still unseen" (yellow sight gem) or "being seen" (red sight gem.)

Results

Long Term Stealth, in this case, has been removed as a primary initiation mechanic but allows Eve and Twitch to cross minion vision and regular sight bubbles with impunity and sneak into brush patches by circle/stalk their opponents. Their opponents can likewise spot-check areas with their own reveal radius and create zones were stealth characters "probably aren't, otherwise they'd be seen."

The sight gem allows the Eve/Twitch player to take much of the guesswork out of figuring out when they were being seen or revealed and allows them to put more of their thoughts on clever positioning and sneaking around their opponents, especially for lane ganks.

This also lets us make them more combat oriented characters that don't immediately blow up on start. In general, this stealth has proven to be very difficult to use but allows characters to have some bluff gameplay and interesting circle/stalk gameplay in testing. Your characters can still scout, but at a highly diminished effectiveness (due to the increased range.)

In team fights, stealth proved to be less effective than before, so the character's combat viabilities are being looked at through reworks/remakes.

What is blocking us on releasing this:

1. There's a pretty big problem with the concept known as Oracle-Sweeping. We'd want to replace Oracle's elixir with someone that doesn't cause such weird gameplay but as to what would be a *good* replacement is a little up in the air.

2. General particle/kit rebalancing work - We need to heavily redo Evelynn and Twitch's kits and that comes different visuals and graphical effects.

What I am testing right now - Additionally

Sight wards as being partial motion sensors - Sight wards signalling when a hostile is moving nearby?
"Robot Chicken" scout drone
"Wriggles" for supports?

I probably shouldn't do this but as compensation, some sneaks..

Evelynn can have her stun back, because now you have advanced warning of her when she steps in. She might need a short-step-stun in order to successfully initiate. Testing required. Twitch has proven to be a slightly harder problem in internal testing.

As an aside: Hate spike is now awesome (for me, at least). Evelynn now has Champion prioritizing Lurker Spines. This makes her lane less bad.

As usual, feel free to ask questions for a little bit as I stick around. I don't know all the details of the full remake (as Live better understands that new environment). Sorry for the delay, but with Orianna/Champion pipeline and such, this has been somewhat of a lower priority for me.

Neat idea. Theres a lot of red posts answering the questions over the topic that you can follow on devtracker.

Tonko · 2011-07-12 19:25

How shocking, those of you who were in that game last night with that asshole Twitch should remember my comment to him.

I guess this is an I TOLD YOU SO moment.

**Qeomash** · 2011-07-12 19:37

Interesting changes, though are stealthies really that big of an issue? If they have a stealthie on their side, we're just always sure to travel in groups or prioritize an Oracle's, both of which tend to happen anyway these days.

Tonko · 2011-07-12 19:39

It changes the way you play 100% (if you're not a mouth breather) and creates an undue financial strain on the opposing team to counter.
Oracles aren't cheap, it would be different if they didn't wear off when you died, but you have an oracles and you get focused in a team fight to make you lose it.

**Tyrath** · 2011-07-12 19:42

Twitch was the first champion I ever learned in this game. If he can be playable again, I'd love it.

**Jinn** · 2011-07-12 19:51

Originally Posted by Tonko

How shocking, those of you who were in that game last night with that asshole Twitch should remember my comment to him.

I guess this is an I TOLD YOU SO moment.

Fuck that guy

Originally Posted by Tyrath

Twitch was the first champion I ever learned in this game. If he can be playable again, I'd love it.

Not trolling or being a jerk, but how is he not playable? I've yet to try and Champ that can stealth yet. Sadly I've had to lain against many of them, all the oracles and purple wards in the world couldn't save me from getting ganked.

**Tyrath** · 2011-07-12 20:15

Originally Posted by Jinn

Not trolling or being a jerk, but how is he not playable? I've yet to try and Champ that can stealth yet. Sadly I've had to lain against many of them, all the oracles and purple wards in the world couldn't save me from getting ganked.

Oracle shuts him down hard. If he gets off to a really good start he might be okay, but even then. He's just so squishy, against many champs with oracles he just can't do anything.

**Aero** · 2011-07-12 20:57

The only real stealth character I hate playing against is Teemo. I personally never felt Eve was a bad problem pre-nerf, so long as she wasn't fed by the 1st 15 mins the game always felt like it was a 4v5 for the rest of the game. The only reason people seem to die to her was because they were too aggressive and she capitalizes on that. The same went for twitch. Both of them always felt gimmicky to me in the sense that they aren't viable at all if they arent fed kills early game.

Naver · 2011-07-12 21:03

Would anyone like to play a few games and teach me? I'm currently 8 or 9 now. Name is mpBanana. Thanks in advance!

**Zanz L. Barre The 3rd** · 2011-07-12 21:33

Originally Posted by Naver

Would anyone like to play a few games and teach me? I'm currently 8 or 9 now. Name is mpBanana. Thanks in advance!

Practice minion kill shots and don't over-extend are the best pieces of advice I can give for a new player.

**Tyrath** · 2011-07-12 21:48

Originally Posted by Zanz L. Barre The 3rd

Practice minion kill shots and don't over-extend are the best pieces of advice I can give for a new player.

Plus pay attention to the mini map and buy wards.

**Tyrath** · 2011-07-12 22:03

Also, leonas coming out tomorrow.

http://eu.leagueoflegends.com/board/...d.php?t=317939

**Meian** · 2011-07-12 23:49

Originally Posted by Tyrath

Also, leonas coming out tomorrow.

http://eu.leagueoflegends.com/board/...d.php?t=317939

"If" everything is stable. The patch includes Leona like ours did in NA. Still hoping though!

Tonko · 2011-07-13 05:02

I just installed a UI mod for LoL and I'm really liking how cleaned up it is.
http://leaguecraft.com/uimods/56-per...nstaller.xhtml
If anyone cares to check it out.

**D44kpunk** · 2011-07-13 06:49

it's always been my personal opinion that stealth characters are the easiest to counter. they only do well against people that have no map awareness. they do change the way you play, yes, but it's very easy to make them completely obsolete.

**orson** · 2011-07-13 13:16

Originally Posted by D44kpunk

it's always been my personal opinion that stealth characters are the easiest to counter. they only do well against people that have no map awareness. they do change the way you play, yes, but it's very easy to make them completely obsolete.

I have to disagree maybe in higher level play it makes less difference. In regular play or low elo having a good stealth character gives you great scouting and automatically makes your opponents sink gold into items that don't have any major offensive or defensive advantages.

**Tyrath** · 2011-07-13 14:21

If by higher level play you mean level 30, then yeah.

**Meko** · 2011-07-13 14:47

Is LoL worth playing still? Is it active etc? I'm still looking for something fun and engaging to hold me over.

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