Old League of Legends Thread

**Serif** · 2012-01-22 02:10

Originally Posted by Meian

WHERE YOU BEEN HIDING

In a van down by the river.

Been busy with work and by the time I get home I usually just go to bed.

**Gredival** · 2012-01-22 20:20

http://clgaming.net/redtracker/topic/26518/?p=1

Morello, head champion designer, claims DotA's Invoker is an example of bad hero design because the complexity imposes too high of a knowledge burden and makes him an "anti-fun" hero: "We can have this argument forever, but there's a balance. Invoker is a clear example of too far, and the fun-to-anti-fun ratio is heavily skewed. Simply put, your own fun can't come at such a large WTF expense of others."

What do people think about LoL's choice in design? Invoker in and of itself is complex yes and imposes a knowledge burden to play well. But I don't see how it matters to an opponent. You already have to commit to learning the skill ranges of lots of champions due to how they rotate, don't you?

**Qeomash** · 2012-01-22 21:01

Invoker sounds to me like a little too much, so on that sense I agree with Morello. The fact that, if I'm reading it right, QWW and WWQ are completely different spells is absurd. It would matter to the opponent if the different abilities had different ways of dodging and significantly different effects. I personally like predictability: I know I can avoid Ezreal's ultimate by sidestepping. I know I'm fucked if Karthus ultis and I have 5 HP.

If I don't know if Invoker is going to AOE stun, Lux laser, Karthus Ulti, or grow to the size of a planet I really don't know how to react so, yes, on that sense I don't like it.

I could see it working if there was around 3 different abilities (say the last other ability you used chooses which you use) and then that is modified based on the other two stacks. You use W last, causing a ranged stun. Stacks of WQQ causes it to slow after the stun wears. WEE causes a signficant DOT during and after the stun. WEQ and WQE slow and DOT to a smaller degree (half power each). WWW makes the duration longer. WWQ, slight slow after a longer duration. WWE, slight dot.

**Gredival** · 2012-01-22 21:30

But on predictability, the issue is biggest only for people who want to play. I don't see what the issue is if the hero is too complex for some people. The concern seems to be the fact that he has more abilities you need to learn when facing him. Riot doesn't want a complex hero because not everyone will have a chance to play him to learn him. But I don't see what the big deal is because you already have to familiarize yourself with so many champions; even if the current pool is restricted, the fact that any champion can be a permanent addition to a player's roster means you need to deal with this issue no matter what.

**Fereydoon** · 2012-01-22 21:36

Posting this in case anyone hasn't seen it. He has a couple of other good ones too.

**Rivero** · 2012-01-22 21:39

I actually think Invoker uses a pretty good design to be honest. Just cause he has 20 spells doesn't mean you need to completely use them all in a fight. Invoker has insane damage potential even by using 2-3 spells and his combined damage from his Q/W/E.

His skill curve is very nice since you can slowly see your progress by playing more and more, he's a hero that you can do decent when you pick up and as you play more really see the work pay off. He's good, but far too "hard" for League's standards.

**Azuark** · 2012-01-22 22:39

^ I agree with Rivero. As someone who loves playing invoker, you really only use 3-5 of your spells depending on how you skill yourself. Tri orbing ( Getting Quas Wex and Exort) and equally skilling them up is just well dumb to me. You either go Quas Wex or Exort Quas in general. Either Support or Damage. And it's really easy to tell because at around lvl 7 ( when he can invoke 2 spells) youll start to see what skill he has in Queue and just go to counter that.

**Vandole** · 2012-01-22 23:35

yeah, it's not like invoker is designed to need an engineering degree in order to play him/against. invoker can be played many many ways, but you figure out which way the opponent is playing very early on in the game. it's not like its overpowered or anything.

Originally Posted by Qeomash

If I don't know if Invoker is going to AOE stun, Lux laser, Karthus Ulti, or grow to the size of a planet I really don't know how to react so, yes, on that sense I don't like it

he doesnt have aoe stun, or lux laser, or karthus ulti, or grow lol.
he actually does have that wind bitch's Q though. they kinda ripped that off of invoker.
http://www.playdota.com/heroes/invoker

closest thing he has to karthus ulti is a very small sized global nuke that has a delayed nuke that hits everything in its small radius for a certain amount of damage shared between each of them. it's pretty hard to snipe with it. you can also dodge it.

**The_OG_Nelta** · 2012-01-23 01:19

Unrelated to invoker talk, but I was so close to hitting 2.1k ELO.. Back to 2k now.

**Rivero** · 2012-01-23 14:12

You need to tell me how you got past 1700. Closest I got was 1800 and then I fell back 100 points. Did you duo it out?

**The_OG_Nelta** · 2012-01-23 16:22

I didn't duo, just play a lot of games and try to win more than you lose. I can lose 6 straight games and win 7-8.

**Tyrath** · 2012-01-24 15:12

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/r...ed-co-op-vs-ai

Zomg, new bots + dominion bots. Never have to get first win on SR ever again :D

**Qeomash** · 2012-01-24 16:10

Yeah, I'm looking forward to Dominion bots. Could be quite interesting. And, really, co-op vs AI is pretty fun if you just want to play and kill stuff but not have to really try. I definitely welcome smarter bots. I really hope that their advanced/expert bots end up being nigh impossible to win against.

**Tyrath** · 2012-01-24 16:32

I wouldn't want them to be almost impossible, but I wouldn't mind something where everyone had to try as a team and not just do what they want on their own.

**Thunder** · 2012-01-24 17:01

Epic bots would be pretty awesome to play against.

Off the top of my head champs like ryze, cass, trynd should be plain better than humans since abilities can be used on cooldown(I always hate myself when I'm on ryze and I lose a teamfight with whoever I was targetting getting left at 5% or something because I'm sure I could have gotten an extra q off if I casted optimally - like a computer). Also, rage could go off only when trynd is about to die and never too early. Or just change it to go off when hp "passes" 1.
Udyr with perfect usage of abilities with triforce just came to mind too. Superduper skillshotting Lee plus optimal usage of passive sounds scary.
Also, bots can be able to tell whether or not a kill is possible. Like, say, a bot should be able to know exactly how much damage is possible with a skill+2 auto attacks or something since armor/hp is visible to enemies.

I think it should be safe to say a bot can be made to be impossible to beat in lane 1v1 or 2v2 and the only way to win is with ganks and superior teamfights(fighting with a +1 or +2 advantage, pretty much).

**Qeomash** · 2012-01-24 17:23

Yeah, by "almost impossible" I mean they do everything exactly optimally and thus actually take a lot of skill to beat.

**Meian** · 2012-01-24 17:57

Originally Posted by Tyrath

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/r...ed-co-op-vs-ai

Zomg, new bots + dominion bots. Never have to get first win on SR ever again :D

Best update ever next to Dominion release :O

**tonyg** · 2012-01-24 22:19

Gotta say I wasn't that excited about the update until I played a few games tonight and got two of the most disgustingly annoying trolls against me. I'm not one to rage easily against these kind of people but those two were simply so horribly wrong it really got to me. Now I'm excited about being able to play against worthy opponents who won't ruin my games.

**Rehont** · 2012-01-24 22:30

New Champion as well as the updates on bots. Its a new Yordle

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=1747074

**Tyrath** · 2012-01-25 09:10

I hope he is a terrorist with bombs. Wish Kog'Maw didn't have his passive or they could've made him suicide bomb on death

Thread: Old League of Legends Thread

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