Old League of Legends Thread

**Gredival** · 2012-07-25 03:31

Ruh-roh Shaggy. Riot eSports conspiracy.

**ringthree** · 2012-07-25 08:48

I think it is especially ironic and funny that someone would compare the DOTA2 skin to the new Mundo skin as if Riot was stealing when almost every single skin in DOTA2 is derived from work that Blizzard did.

Kids these days have no historical context.

**Cleverness** · 2012-07-25 11:07

I read something similar that Riot signed a contract with a tournament and that 1 of the terms was they'd be the only MOBA allowed to play there. Which from a business standpoint makes sense, HoN failed so DoTA2 is going to be a direct competitor to LoL whenever it finishes beta phase. Even with it still in beta phase better to plan now to keep an advantage rather than react after the fact.

The LoL and DoTA2 arguments get so boring to read everytime. LoL was designed to be accessible to everyone while still having some depth(albeit the depth is slowly going away because every team but Koreans is not really straying from the meta). DoTA2 has alot of mechanics that help prevent the snowball nature that happens in League(creep deny, gold lost upon death), but most champs and spells/combos can kill you outright anyway so snowballing isn't that necessary in the first place. Supports in DoTA2 are more fun to play imo in terms of being able to damage and being able to stray from the lane to pull jungle creeps.

**Aero** · 2012-07-25 12:20

Originally Posted by Cleverness

because every team but Koreans is not really straying from the meta

This is one thing I absolutely hate about this game at the moment. People are just too set in their ways to try something new(Without seeing a pro do it).

I miss the way people used to play pvp games without streams; making their own metagame. Remember starcraft before streams came out and everyone had their own style of playing; that required actual strategy and tactics and made for an ever evolving game that you had to figure out yourself. Sadly the biggest difference between starcraft and leagues is though; you can get in shit from your team and admins for not sticking to the meta, which keeps the game stale.

Side semi relevant note; if you want to counter the meta while keeping the same roles:
Alot of AD top counter most bruisers. (Corki and Ez)
Bruisers with gap closers wreck most AP mids. (J4, Jax, Irelia)
AP + support(Doesnt have to be a tradional support either), will beat a majority of bot lanes.

**Qeomash** · 2012-07-25 18:33

One idea that my friends and I had to possibly change the meta would be to have Dragon/Baron placement random.

**Cleverness** · 2012-07-25 18:50

Random and old but I still laugh at it

**Deftscythe** · 2012-07-25 22:07

Originally Posted by Aero

Remember starcraft before streams came out

You mean when everyone copied replays instead? People don't want to think for themselves, they want to win. They see pros win in the current meta so they copy them and it.

**ringthree** · 2012-07-26 09:11

Originally Posted by Deftscythe

You mean when everyone copied replays instead? People don't want to think for themselves, they want to win. They see pros win in the current meta so they copy them and it.

You make this seem like it is it a bad thing to want to win and do so by adapting the best strategy. The reason the current meta is the current meta is because it works and works best.

Can other options work? Sure. I have no doubts about that. But the testing of that should come in pre-made groups. You should try to make your team win when you solo queue because you (hopefully) have 4 other people with the same goal.

We all played FFXI at some point. We all hated melee RDM when we were xping. We all hated DRG in our parties (my first main was DRG, so I know the pain). If you were a DRG you had to make your own parties. If you wanted to melee RDM, you soloed. But even then innovations could come out when you had a group of people that were willing to innovate. That is how you got NIN/DRK.

To me, the people that complain about the "meta" (when did meta become the buzz word for "most efficient way to win") are people that want to be "unique" instead of wanting to win. There are tons of games out there were you can be "unique", but if you are playing a competitive game, you have to want to win, and to win, you have to play in a manner that best achieves that goal.

My suggestion is that I think there needs to be more and different kinds of maps. That changes everything. And different maps should be random for every game. That is how most competitive games function (Starcraft 2 is the first thing that comes to mind).

I don't think the "meta" needs to change, because there will always, ALWAYS, be a best "meta". That is why I want to punch the screen anytime anyone says that DOTA2 has no "meta". There will be a "meta" as soon as people play it enough to figure out the best way to win.

**Cleverness** · 2012-07-26 11:07

Assuming that wasn't sarcasm, meta is short for metagame which is a common term in competitive games of all types(used alot in card games too). Someone who plays Yugioh could probably verify they have 'metagames' there in while you have opportunities to make several different types of decks, certain ones dominated the metagame because of their efficiency.

And while the current meta is the way it is because of its efficiency it doesn't mean people have to adhere to it the whole time. Even simple lane swapping like I see in some tournaments is entertaining because they are trying to promote mismatches that aren't expected. Koreans don't even do the standard 1-1-2 the whole time, they swap very often while still following the meta in regards to only 1 double lane assignment + jungler.

**ringthree** · 2012-07-26 12:07

I was being sarcastic about the definition of meta. I understand what it means, but it is just so much of a buzz word that I find it annoying because it seems to be what every non-conformist attacks first. Meta just means strategy and tactics, generally. It can include other things like runes and items. The problem is that people that don't understand that think "meta" just means "the way everyone does it" instead of the best way to win a game, in all aspects.

Every game has a "meta", because every game has a way to most efficiently win. Anyone that complains about the "meta" is almost always someone that wants to do it their own way, irrelevant of chance to win. The is not to say that there are no other ways to win, or that people shouldn't experiment. They should just do it when it doesn't hurt other people, or if they are with people that fully understand that they are trying something new.

**Tyrath** · 2012-07-26 13:10

This is why I play Dominion. I mean theres still Dom meta, but there tends to be more leeway. Games are shorter, less stressful, and I have to worry less about doing everything by a strict guideline. In other words, its actually fun.

**Sup3rB4d** · 2012-07-26 13:50

Dominion has just as strict of a meta at high levels. I remember when you used to could see dominion elo the top players seemed to always have 4/5 players with exhaust/revive and the same 20champions banned and picked.

I also think that some of you may be confused about people not straying from the meta. I see pro players try new shit all the time, its just that it doesnt make the cut for tournament games most of the time.

Side semi relevant note; if you want to counter the meta while keeping the same roles:
Alot of AD top counter most bruisers. (Corki and Ez)
Bruisers with gap closers wreck most AP mids. (J4, Jax, Irelia)
AP + support(Doesnt have to be a tradional support either), will beat a majority of bot lanes.

People have and still do all of these things. Even outside of the pros. It just isn't common.

**Cleverness** · 2012-07-26 16:11

Best strategy ever is Blitzstar. I joined one once and decided to go Jarvan for extra dunking, haven't had that much fun in LoL since.

**Dantrag** · 2012-07-26 16:27

Fkn finally

**Tyrath** · 2012-07-26 18:52

Originally Posted by Sup3rB4d

Dominion has just as strict of a meta at high levels. I remember when you used to could see dominion elo the top players seemed to always have 4/5 players with exhaust/revive and the same 20champions banned and picked.

I also think that some of you may be confused about people not straying from the meta. I see pro players try new shit all the time, its just that it doesnt make the cut for tournament games most of the time.

No, what I'm talking about is the community in general. Dominion to me feels far less rigid and less hostile as far as trying things out or fucking up goes. Sure theres dicks there too, but its not as bad as SR to me. Games are way more fun.

**Thunder** · 2012-07-26 18:56

if I want to fuck around with something new I go to dominion because I'm worried about fucking up in SR and then fighting a losing battle for 35 minutes

and also because people suck and taking it for 35 minutes sucks

Games in SR are decided in pretty much <15 minutes and I don't want to try something new, fail, and then suck for the rest of the time and inevitably lose. Dom's much quicker(albeit a lot different than SR, I still get a "feel" for things with new champs/item comps/skill orders)

**Deftscythe** · 2012-07-26 18:57

Ringthree, you completely misinterpreted my post.

The post Aero made(which I quoted), was implying that streaming has ruined not only LoL but also competitive games in general by allowing amateurs(for lack of a better term) to easily copy pros and enforcing a metagame.

My post was only meant to point out that before streaming, people found other ways to copy pros and would find them again if own3d and twitch shut down tomorrow. I was making no judgement on the desire to copy pros(except that it's a little lazy mentally) or on the existence of the current metagame.

**Hiryo** · 2012-07-26 21:20

So 1 day after Diana's sneak peak, we have Diana revealed. Imo, if her gameplay can be as fast as they claim it to be, she could be a lot of fun. A mixture of so many champs(all girls) with a tanky body. If only her sprite looked better (but that's what skins are for)

Moonsilver Blade (Passive): Diana has increased Attack Speed. Every third strike cleaves nearby enemies for additional magic damage.
Crescent Strike: Diana swings her blade to unleash a bolt of lunar energy, afflicting enemies with Moonlight and dealing damage in an arc before exploding.
Pale Cascade: Diana creates three orbiting spheres that detonate on contact with enemies to deal damage in an area. She also gains a temporary shield that absorbs damage. This shield is refreshed if all three spheres detonate.
Moonfall: Diana draws in and slows all nearby enemies.
Lunar Rush (Ultimate): Diana teleports to an enemy and deals magic damage. Lunar Rush has no cooldown when used to teleport to a target afflicted with Moonlight.
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/d...-moon-revealed

**Deftscythe** · 2012-07-26 21:51

That ultimate sounds really fun. Kinda wish they'd come out with another support though.

**Hiryo** · 2012-07-26 22:28

It may be fun to build her as a tanky jungle though, kinda like malphite? Slash as a poke, teleport to carries, rake in all 5, pop Randuin's omen, Annie drops Tibbers, etc
Who knows if it actually would work like that

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