Old League of Legends Thread

[Viq]

For those getting ready for Worlds to start up, here's a decent interview and regional analysis from Kim Dong-jun, one of the main OGN casters.

[chazzyphizzle]

vulcan doing big things early, they smashed fanatic lol

[Viq]

I can't wait for the 2nd OMG vs. SKT match. The first one was the best match from group A in day 1. I'll try to watch through the Group B matches later tonight.

[ringthree]

Ozone looked really weak yesterday. Losing to Gambit in a crush and would have lost to Vulcan if they didn't throw the game completely. I was really surprised.

[Gryffes]

Mancloud was crushing hard.

Best mid NA no doubt.

[Viq]

Ozone looked really weak yesterday. Losing to Gambit in a crush and would have lost to Vulcan if they didn't throw the game completely. I was really surprised.

I don't think Ozone looked weak in that game against Vulcan. Vulcan played like total shit, despite having a small lead early. That match made me think of something that Homme, the old top laner for Ozone said awhile ago. He said that Ozone wins a lot of games because too many people think that they're playing a PvP game when they play LoL, but Ozone is a playing a PvE game where occasionally someone is standing in front of your objective. When Vulcan had a lead they kept trying to pick fights for the sake of picking fights. They were picking fights in areas of the map and situations where there was no advantage to be gained besides the kill gold. They didn't often turn kills into objective pressure, let alone objectives. Ozone, despite being down, turned kills into objectives instantly, which allowed them to snowball hard. Ozone had a slow early game, but played well for much of that game.

I can't speak to the match against Gambit, because I haven't seen it yet. I should be able to catch that and the FNC vs. Mineski game after my morning class tomorrow.

EDIT: Vulcan looked great in the first game against Fnatic though. If you can play that style more consistently, they'll have a fantastic chance to get out of the group.

[ringthree]

I don't think Ozone looked weak in that game against Vulcan. Vulcan played like total shit, despite having a small lead early. That match made me think of something that Homme, the old top laner for Ozone said awhile ago. He said that Ozone wins a lot of games because too many people think that they're playing a PvP game when they play LoL, but Ozone is a playing a PvE game where occasionally someone is standing in front of your objective. When Vulcan had a lead they kept trying to pick fights for the sake of picking fights. They were picking fights in areas of the map and situations where there was no advantage to be gained besides the kill gold. They didn't often turn kills into objective pressure, let alone objectives. Ozone, despite being down, turned kills into objectives instantly, which allowed them to snowball hard. Ozone had a slow early game, but played well for much of that game.

I can't speak to the match against Gambit, because I haven't seen it yet. I should be able to catch that and the FNC vs. Mineski game after my morning class tomorrow.

That is an interesting philosophy because pretty much all of Korea operates in the reverse manner and they do pretty well. Also, Vulcan didn't have a "small lead" they were well ahead at the end of the early game. As you even said, Vulcan threw the game by picking fights in bad positions. Ozone was often out of position and isolated early on and reacted very slowly to shifts.

Sorry about the spoilers in the Gambit game, but basically it was the same game against a team that didn't throw.

[Viq]

I think if you were to watch it again, you might find that the early game wasn't as heavily in favor of Vulcan as you think. Mancloud absolutely crushed Dade mid. Xsmithie had some terrific ganks as well, two of which allowed Vulcan to pick up the first two dragons. However, Zuna and Bloodwater got embarrassed in the bot lane. They had level 1 positional advantage, misplayed it, and then the lane was over at level 2. Imp was up 30 cs, and Vulcan's bottom turret was at 50% by 11 minutes. Looper and Sid in the top lane went pretty even in cs top, which was good work by Sid. Unfortunately for Vulcan, all of the cs trading was taking place under Sid's tower. Looper was able to chip away at it with no response from Sid or Xsmithie, and it turned out to be the first tower of the game.

All of Mancloud and Xsmithie's hard work never amounted to a lead larger than 12%, which was after the 2nd dragon and following team fight win in Ozone's jungle. The result of that team fight, which was a 5 vs. 4 that Vulcan came out on top of 4-1, was a turret trade. Since Vulcan hadn't been pressuring objectives and hadn't done anything to resist Looper in the top, that turret trade was bottom outer for top inner. Vulcan lost the game within the next two minutes. They let Shen go back top to free farm, which is fine. They decided to stick Ezreal solo bottom against Singed, and stacked the other 3 mid. Mancloud got blown up in that 3 vs. 4 situation, Ozone took mid turret, and the snowball was on.

tl;dr - Mancloud and Xsmithie were awesome, but the other 3 guys got blown up. Game was always very close until Vulcan made one terrible strategic move that cost the game.

EDIT: Don't worry about spoilers. The result of each match aren't as interesting to me as the play that led to the result.

[ringthree]

I think if you were to watch it again, you might find that the early game wasn't as heavily in favor of Vulcan as you think. Mancloud absolutely crushed Dade mid. Xsmithie had some terrific ganks as well, two of which allowed Vulcan to pick up the first two dragons. However, Zuna and Bloodwater got embarrassed in the bot lane. They had level 1 positional advantage, misplayed it, and then the lane was over at level 2. Imp was up 30 cs, and Vulcan's bottom turret was at 50% by 11 minutes. Looper and Sid in the top lane went pretty even in cs top, which was good work by Sid. Unfortunately for Vulcan, all of the cs trading was taking place under Sid's tower. Looper was able to chip away at it with no response from Sid or Xsmithie, and it turned out to be the first tower of the game.

All of Mancloud and Xsmithie's hard work never amounted to a lead larger than 12%, which was after the 2nd dragon and following team fight win in Ozone's jungle. The result of that team fight, which was a 5 vs. 4 that Vulcan came out on top of 4-1, was a turret trade. Since Vulcan hadn't been pressuring objectives and hadn't done anything to resist Looper in the top, that turret trade was bottom outer for top inner. Vulcan lost the game within the next two minutes. They let Shen go back top to free farm, which is fine. They decided to stick Ezreal solo bottom against Singed, and stacked the other 3 mid. Mancloud got blown up in that 3 vs. 4 situation, Ozone took mid turret, and the snowball was on.

tl;dr - Mancloud and Xsmithie were awesome, but the other 3 guys got blown up. Game was always very close until Vulcan made one terrible strategic move that cost the game.

EDIT: Don't worry about spoilers. The result of each match aren't as interesting to me as the play that led to the result.

Early game Vulcan won Mid, Top and Jungle. Two of them in a crush. They had the kill lead and the gold lead. And that is a "slight" advantage? It wasn't until the bad fights that Vulcan picked that they started losing. To me is Vulcan giving up a lead because they were forcing fights that they thought would gain them more of an advantage, instead of pushing objectives. Ozone didn't have anything to do with their own win before that point.

Again, I think you need the context of the Ozone v. Gambit game to see just how poorly their play was. Consider also that Vulcan barely made it to worlds and should have been greatly overmatched by Ozone. Color me unimpressed compared to a team like SK Telecomm.

[Viq]

I'm curious by what metric you think Sid won top. He was down both cs and positionally the entire game. He had two kills that came from using his ult to help out other lanes, but those ultimately cost him two turrets that he never answered. I agree that Xsmithie and Mancloud won their respective positions early game. Gold leads are all relative, and a 12% gold lead is not that huge. Kill leads don't mean much to me if those kills don't turn into objectives or map pressure, which Vulcan only accomplished twice via dragons (dragon is the least valuable neutral objective on the map overall, imo). Perhaps it's just a matter of us having different philosophies on what we deem to be important in the game, but to me this match was extremely close for the first 17-19 minutes or so. I also don't know what the match against Gambit has to do with their performance in the match against Vulcan. I'm not suggesting that Ozone played incredibly all day. I'm not even suggesting that they played particularly awesome in this game against Vulcan. I'm just saying that they played well enough to keep the game close until an opportunity presented itself, and they made the most of that opportunity. On the flip side, saying that Vulcan threw when they had a 12% gold lead, and no lead in objectives or map presence seems harsh to me. Oh well, differing opinions and such.

[ringthree]

I'm curious by what metric you think Sid won top. He was down both cs and positionally the entire game. He had two kills that came from using his ult to help out other lanes, but those ultimately cost him two turrets that he never answered. I agree that Xsmithie and Mancloud won their respective positions early game. Gold leads are all relative, and a 12% gold lead is not that huge. Kill leads don't mean much to me if those kills don't turn into objectives or map pressure, which Vulcan only accomplished twice via dragons (dragon is the least valuable neutral objective on the map overall, imo). Perhaps it's just a matter of us having different philosophies on what we deem to be important in the game, but to me this match was extremely close for the first 17-19 minutes or so. I also don't know what the match against Gambit has to do with their performance in the match against Vulcan. I'm not suggesting that Ozone played incredibly all day. I'm not even suggesting that they played particularly awesome in this game against Vulcan. I'm just saying that they played well enough to keep the game close until an opportunity presented itself, and they made the most of that opportunity. On the flip side, saying that Vulcan threw when they had a 12% gold lead, and no lead in objectives or map presence seems harsh to me. Oh well, differing opinions and such.

Lets start with why this discussion started. I started by saying Ozone looked weak. You disagreed. That was the basis of the discussion. I expected a lot more out of them. Vulcan had the opportunity to take the game, and it was mistakes on their part that allowed Ozone to come back. Saying that Ozone wasn't that far behind doesn't really prove anything. Ozone was supposed to be the over team in their group. The did not look like it at all.

Shen v. Singed should be an advantage lane for Singed. Shen was equal on farm and dealing quite well with Singed. That is a win for Vulcan. While Shen was pushed back, that was to be expected. He might have lost the first tower before Vulcan started to collapse, but it wasn't until after the first completely lost team fight that Singed took the second tower.

[D44kpunk]

it's vulcun btw u not a

[BadKarma]

why the fuck are worlds starting so late

[Zetanio]

Seriously. I'm not staying up that late.

[Serif]

why the fuck are worlds starting so late

Probably the best possible time for all of the markets? 10-11 AM for China/Japan now.

You know this is WORLDS right?

And wtf! An AMEX that earns you RP!? Are you fucking serious!?

[Viq]

Starting late?! It's 11AM, son.

[Deftscythe]

I have to agree with what Montecristo was saying about Ozone after their loss tonight. They look as though they are just not respecting their opponents and have no plan. I mean, this is a team that won Champions by studying and then dismantling each team put in front of them based on that study. Here, their picks look like equal parts knee-jerk reaction("genja beat me with triforce kog, so i'm gonna play that") and desperation(gragas).

[Viq]

I really hope they swap Homme in for Looper. Homme is such a smart player, and a great decision maker that has a lot of influence over the rest of the team. I think if Homme was playing, there's no way that Kog and Gragas get picked in that game. I'm not sure that switch would be enough for them to make it out of pools at this point though.

[Aevis]

That last Fnatic vs Gambit match made Gambit look like a bunch of amateurs, especially the teamfights.

[Conrad]

And wtf! An AMEX that earns you RP!? Are you fucking serious!?

they announced this weeks ago. it's a prepaid card though.

basically, sign up for the direct deposit and maximize the RP bonuses, then never use it again because the cost effectiveness of spending is horrible compared to other reward cards